Hi,

    I have used the DT001 and DT101 in the past with great success but I am
having some problems using the ISP header on the DT106 board.

   Using the DT106 in Slot 1 of the DT001 is fine (program/run operation). I
have to remove the LCD during programming but devices connected to RB6 and
RB7 on other boards are unaffected as expected

    On the Dontronics DT106 web-page it says that if you want to use the
LOAD/RUN system with the LCD connected then you can plug the DT106 into slot
2 (for example) and use a ribbon cable to connect the 10 pin header on the
DT106 to the 10 pin header on the DT001.  When I try this the device fails
to program, however looking at the circuits this is understandable.  With
the DT001 4PDT in the Run position the PIC connections (RES, B6 etc) are
connected to the LCD/J1 (RESx, B6x etc) and everything is OK. With the 4PDT
in LOAD, the PIC connections (RES, B6 etc) are connected to the DT001
programming signals (PICVPP, PICRB6 etc) which sounds fine...However...the
LCD/J1 pins (RESx, B6x etc) are permanently connected to the RES, D7, D6
lines on the DT001 by the even numbered pins of the 10 pin header, whilst
the PIC on the DT106 is also connected to the RES, D7, D6 lines permanently.
Effectively this means that the B6, B6, RES lines are still connected to the
LCD/J1 during programming.  This also means that the switched VDD (PICVDD)
is connected to the unswitched VCC when the header is in place (this means
that the VDD On Green LED stays on all the time).

I realise that the ISP header wasn't designed to be used whilst the target
board is plugged into a DT001 but similar problems arise when using the ISP
header in a target system.  I have a system in mind which has a number of
cards plugged into a passive motherboard.  Using the ISP header to program
the DT106 card whilst plugged into the system, the PICVDD, PICVPP, PICRB6
and PICRB7 programming signals are connected to the SIMMBUS during
programming (via the DT106 card) meaning that 12V is fed to all devices on
the simmbus using the Reset line, the +5V PICVDD is connected to the supply
voltage on the target system and the PICRB6, PICRB7 signals go to any other
cards using D6 and D7.

On the DT106 that I have in front of me I have made a couple of
modifications to get round this.  I have cut the tracks at the edge
connector which connect the PIC to the bus at all times (for VCC, RES, D6
and D7) and instead added a few link wires which connect the edge connector
signals VCC,Res,D6 and D7 lines to the even pins of the 10 pin header.  This
means that with jumpers replacing the 10 pin header the card works as
normal.  With the ISP cable in place,  the LCD and J1 are connected to the
SimmBus at all times (just like a peripheral on another card would be) but
the PIC RES, RB6 etc are only connected to the bus whilst the 4PDT is in the
RUN position.  When the switch is set to LOAD, the PIC programming pins are
effectively disconnected from the rest of the world and used exclusively for
programming the PIC.  This means that you can use RB6 and RB7 for anything
you want including communicating with other boards whilst still being able
to program the chip in circuit without disconnecting anything.  Having tried
this modification for a few days it seems to work as expected (note that
when cutting the tracks to the edge connector you have to add a small link
to replace a path which used the edge connector hole as a via)

I wondered if there was a reason why the DT106 header was arranged the way
it was.

Any thoughts

Steve.

I ran into problems because the header does not seperate +5 from 
the bus. I had to disconnect my power supply when 
programming(using my own motherboard). I guess this may cause 
problems if other Sticks are in the bus.

Steve Daly wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> I wondered if there was a reason why the DT106 header was arranged the way
> it was.
> Any thoughts
> Steve.

Hi Steve,
you can blame me for all of that. :-)

It's a matter of trying to balance all the options out and coming up
with something workable.
I think i may have mislead you with the bit about programming a passive
bus via the 10 pin header.
I know it takes a lot of reading and head scratching, and i designed it.

Slot one, conditions normal, will program normal, yes?

stand alone board, with 10 pin header isolation correctly using the 4pdt
switch, and using the 40 pin header for expansion, all is OK.

When you try and use the 10 pin header and put the board in a standard
slot, then you don't get the programming isolation to the other slots.
The pins on the header seem to be reversed. Is this the problem you are
finding?

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

>
> Slot one, conditions normal, will program normal, yes?
>
> stand alone board, with 10 pin header isolation correctly using the 4pdt
> switch, and using the 40 pin header for expansion, all is OK.
>
> When you try and use the 10 pin header and put the board in a standard
> slot, then you don't get the programming isolation to the other slots.
> The pins on the header seem to be reversed. Is this the problem you are
> finding?
>
>
Hi Don,

    Yes that basically sums up the problem although I wouldn't say that the
"pins on the header seem to be reversed", just that the PIC is still
connected to the Simmbus during programming. Obviously this is fine unless
you have the card plugged into another board.  Basically my problem is that
the 10-pin header is being used to isolate LCD/J1 rather than to isolate the
PIC.

What I did to my DT106 was slightly modify it so that the 10-pin header now
effectively disconnects the PIC from the bus (and LCD/J1) during programming
but leaves LCD/J1 connected to the Simmbus at all times  This means that the
card can be programmed:
    * In Slot 1 of the DT001 (with LCD/J1 disconnected) and jumpers
replacing the 10-pin header as normal
    * In another slot of the DT001 with the 10-pin ISP cable in place and
with the LCD/J1 still connected
    * In a target system irrespective of the use of RB6,RB7,VDD or Reset on
other boards on the bus.

I can't see any problems with this arrangement as it allows for all the
programming options that were available before the modification but also
allows a card to be programmed when plugged into a target system or DT001.

What do you think ?

Regards,

Steve

Steve Daly wrote:

snip---

> I can't see any problems with this arrangement as it allows for all the
> programming options that were available before the modification but also
> allows a card to be programmed when plugged into a target system or DT001.
> 
> What do you think ?

Is it possible to give me the track cuts and jumpers you did so I can
visualize it better Steve?
I think I know what you mean, but I wonder how this affects the 10 pin
header as far as programming it as a stand alone unit is concerned,
which was the main reason for having the header.

Seems it may have needed two headers, or a re-direction of pins then.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

Don wrote...
> Is it possible to give me the track cuts and jumpers you did so I can
> visualize it better Steve?
> I think I know what you mean, but I wonder how this affects the 10 pin
> header as far as programming it as a stand alone unit is concerned,
> which was the main reason for having the header.
>
> Seems it may have needed two headers, or a re-direction of pins then.

I think you can get away with only one header and it should work when
programming a card in any situation.  Here is what I did:

1) Cut the tracks alongside the Simmbus for pins 7,8,21,22 (including the
track from pin 21 on the solder side of the board)
2) As the simmbus pin 21 hole is used as a via you have to restore that
path.  I ran a link from U5 pin-27 to J4 pin-7.

....this has disconnected the PIC programming signals from the Simmbus.  Now
I connected the LCD/J1 signals (B6x, B7x etc) to the simmbus as follows

3) Run link from Simmbus pin 7 to J4 pin 2
4) Run link from Simmbus pin 8 to J4 pin 4
5) Run link from Simmbus pin 21 to J4 pin 8
6) Run link from Simmbus pin 22 to J4 pin 6

This results in the LCD/J1 signals (RESx,VCC,B7x,B6x) being permanently
connected to the Simmbus but the PIC(s) being isolated by J4.

* When the card is not connected via the ISP header, replacing J4 with
jumpers reconnects the PIC to the bus (and to LCD/J1).  This holds true for
a standalone card or for a card in any Slot of the DT001 or other backplane.
* When connected via an ISP cable to the DT001, pins 1,3,5,7 of the ISP
header connect the PIC(s) to the simmbus with the 4PDT in "Run" and connect
the PIC(s) to the programming signals with the 4PDT in "Load".  This holds
true whether the card is in another slot of the DT001, is connected to a
backplane in another system, or is not connected to any system.

Does this make sense ?

Regards

Steve.

Steve Daly wrote:
> 
> Don wrote...

> * When the card is not connected via the ISP header, replacing J4 with
> jumpers reconnects the PIC to the bus (and to LCD/J1).  This holds true for
> a standalone card or for a card in any Slot of the DT001 or other backplane.
> * When connected via an ISP cable to the DT001, pins 1,3,5,7 of the ISP
> header connect the PIC(s) to the simmbus with the 4PDT in "Run" and connect
> the PIC(s) to the programming signals with the 4PDT in "Load".  This holds
> true whether the card is in another slot of the DT001, is connected to a
> backplane in another system, or is not connected to any system.
> 
> Does this make sense ?

OK then, when using the isolation of the 10 pin header, it means the
simm bus and the I/O bus on the card are connected together, and the PIC
is isolated. The switch when used in conjunction with the 10 wire flat
ribbon cable between the dt001 and the dt106 boards, means correct
isolation of all external buses.

Correct?

if this is so, we may have a look at it when we are ready to do new
boards.
thanks for that Steve.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

Robert Severson has come up with a little I/O board
on a 2" SimmStick, and he is very happy to pass the 
design on to me to produce, as he would like to present
the design to the SimmStick world at no cost. 

As Rob says, in the interest of providing more 
SimmStick momentum,

I have put some gifs up at:
http://www.dontronics.com/!1.gif 
http://www.dontronics.com/!2.gif 

The schematic only shows one of three possible channels.

This is Rob's initial description of the board.
===============================================
This is preliminary and a little rough, but this is the I/O board 
that I mentioned previously. The board has three Philips 8574 parts.
These 
parts are I2C to 8 bits input or output. Three of these would give you
24 
i/o lines. On board also are three 18 pin sockets that can be populated 
with ULN2803 drivers for higher output current capability. The sockets 
could be instead populated with resistor DIP packages if the parts are
used 
for input. You can have a mix of ports, like this:

24 output lines
24 input lines
16 out 8 in
8 out 16 in

The input can be used to scan switches, the output to light LEDs. A 
keyboard with 128 keys could be scanned. Relays can be driven.
Interrupts 
are even supported by the 8574, although the pin remains undedicated.
(User 
wires this.)

Each package has address decode jumpers. Two of these cards can exist
in a 
system.

The 16 SimmBus port lines also extend to the header. A 60pin dual 
insulation displacement connector can plug into this header to bring
all 
signals off-board. Five 10-pin duals could plug in (two pins remain
unused 
as spacers) one connector per port.
==================

I have listed Rob's contact info below.
If you read Circuit Cellar Inc, you will see his 
USBSIMM design on page 10 this month.

=================
Robert Severson
Senior Design Engineer

J. Gordon Electronic Design, Inc.
201 85th Ave NW
Minneapolis, MN 55433

Phone:       (612) 786-2405 x136
Fax:         (612) 786-5778
Email:       severson@j...
Web Page:    http://www.jged.com 
USBSIMM:     http://usbsimm.home.att.net
=================

Also please have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html
This is a new board we are designing for the AVR family.
Apart from "yes looks good Don", we have had no 
constructive critisism yet, and would appreciate it.

We want to know what you would like in the way of designs
for SimmStick.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

WOW! What a GREAT IDEA! (Or don't I get a vote?)

I just wanted to mention, that in addition to my USBSIMM SimmStick article
in the March Circuit Cellar, Jack Ganssle mentions the USBSIMM in March
Embedded Systems Programming and Jan Axelson mentions it in Nuts & Volts,
also in March.

I hope that this positive press also adds to the SimmStick momentum.

Anybody willing to provide feedback?

Take care,
-Rob


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don McKenzie [mailto:don@d...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 5:19 PM
> To: simmstick@e...
> Subject: [simmstick] New I/O SimmStick, and an old one revisited.
> 
> 
> Robert Severson has come up with a little I/O board
> on a 2" SimmStick, and he is very happy to pass the 
> design on to me to produce, as he would like to present
> the design to the SimmStick world at no cost. 
> 
> As Rob says, in the interest of providing more 
> SimmStick momentum,
> 
> I have put some gifs up at:
> http://www.dontronics.com/!1.gif 
> http://www.dontronics.com/!2.gif 
> 
> The schematic only shows one of three possible channels.
> 
> This is Rob's initial description of the board.
> ===============================================
> This is preliminary and a little rough, but this is the I/O board 
> that I mentioned previously. The board has three Philips 8574 parts.
> These 
> parts are I2C to 8 bits input or output. Three of these would give you
> 24 
> i/o lines. On board also are three 18 pin sockets that can be 
> populated 
> with ULN2803 drivers for higher output current capability. 
> The sockets 
> could be instead populated with resistor DIP packages if the parts are
> used 
> for input. You can have a mix of ports, like this:
> 
> 24 output lines
> 24 input lines
> 16 out 8 in
> 8 out 16 in
> 
> The input can be used to scan switches, the output to light LEDs. A 
> keyboard with 128 keys could be scanned. Relays can be driven.
> Interrupts 
> are even supported by the 8574, although the pin remains undedicated.
> (User 
> wires this.)
> 
> Each package has address decode jumpers. Two of these cards can exist
> in a 
> system.
> 
> The 16 SimmBus port lines also extend to the header. A 60pin dual 
> insulation displacement connector can plug into this header to bring
> all 
> signals off-board. Five 10-pin duals could plug in (two pins remain
> unused 
> as spacers) one connector per port.
> ==================
> 
> I have listed Rob's contact info below.
> If you read Circuit Cellar Inc, you will see his 
> USBSIMM design on page 10 this month.
> 
> =================
> Robert Severson
> Senior Design Engineer
> 
> J. Gordon Electronic Design, Inc.
> 201 85th Ave NW
> Minneapolis, MN 55433
> 
> Phone:       (612) 786-2405 x136
> Fax:         (612) 786-5778
> Email:       severson@j...
> Web Page:    http://www.jged.com 
> USBSIMM:     http://usbsimm.home.att.net
> =================
> 
> Also please have a look at:
> http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html
> This is a new board we are designing for the AVR family.
> Apart from "yes looks good Don", we have had no 
> constructive critisism yet, and would appreciate it.
> 
> We want to know what you would like in the way of designs
> for SimmStick.
> 
> Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      
> http://www.dontronics.com
> 
> World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR 
> and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
> Free Basic Compiler and Programmer 
> http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
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> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> simmstick-unsubscribe@e...
> 
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>

Mac,

Good questions!

> Rob,
> Saw the stuff from Don and your recent post.
> Please bare with me here, while I'm not new to micro 
> development in general,
> I am a recent SIMM Stick devotee.

Welcome! ;-)


> I have not had the chance to look up the specified IC's to 
> determine their
> specific function.

Short answer: I2C 8 bit I/O.


> Looking at the schematic that Don posted, the I/O that you've added is
> intended to be connected to another SIMM Stick, say a DT101, 
> via a 30 pin
> header, or the SIMM bus. Is this correct?

Yes. I picture a "mother board" like the DT003 and a processor board
(Example: DT101) and this board. The PIC on the DT101 gains 24 I/O lines
accessible through the I2C lines of the SimmBus.


> Given that, JP7, JP8, JP9 select the "address" of the I/O 
> card, if there are more than one?

A little more specifically: JP7/8/9 selects the I/O for one 8474. There are
three on the board total. Each 8574 needs a specific I2C address. JP7/8/9
are duplicated for the other two 8574s on the board.


> And, MA06-2 represent the connection points for signals from 
> the outside world?

Yes. MAO6-2 is a dual-in line pin header. Two rows of 6 pins, 12 pins total.
Eight of the 12 are the port lines for a 8574. The remaining four connect to
unused wire points. (JP1/2/3/4).

My logic is messy to describe without a nice diagram. (I'll make one at some
point.)

Here goes: (use an equal-spaced font)

One connector for a port (one 8574) looks like this:

o o o o o o 
o o o o o o

This is a grouping of 8 port lines and 4 spares. (Use for ground, power,
etc.)


The three 8574 ports and the D0-D15 pins from the SimmBus are all lined up
at the edge:

o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o ..total 30X2
o o o o o o o o o o o o o o o

You can use a 60 position (30X2) ribbon cable insulation displacement
connector to grab all of the signals at once.


You can use a 10-pin (5X2) ribbon cable IDC plugged into the port pins and
two of the spare pins remain unused.

o o o o o .
o o o o o .

The dots in this example indicate pins of the 12 pin grouping that go
unused. The signals that you then get are the 8 port lines and 2 spares that
can be used for power/ground.


Clear as mud?


> 
> What are JP1, 2, 3, 4?

Wire points for connection of power, ground, etc to the big dual row of
pins.


> If using more than one board (interrupt input on both), how 
> is the source of the interrupt determined?

The interrupt pins of the 8574 run only to wire points. If each 8574 were
connected to separate interrupts on the host processor, they would be
separately distinguishable. The implementation is left to the user. I think
this offers the most flexibility.

Again, thanks for your questions. It'll help everyone understand. 

Take care,
-Rob

 
> Mac
 
> The American Paradox: science & technology animate every corner of our
> society, except our classrooms. Our society lives by the fruits of
> invention, but does not teach invention.
> - A.C. Gilbert

 <sigh.>

Released 9-Mar-2000
DT208 SimmStick Adapter Board. 
http://www.dontronics.com/dt208.html
Many users have indicated that the thin PCB material requirement for
SimmStick boards can be a major obstacle when it comes to using these
boards as a rapid prototyping platform. People can't use quick turn
around El-Cheapo board services to make SimmStick cards. 
This makes "fat boards" into skinny SIMM-socket mountable SimmSticks. 

also check:
http://www.dontronics.com/specials.html
for some stock clearance specials on PICmicro and Atmel Assembled and
Tested RS-232 driven programmers.
 
Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

I am looking for advice on linking a number (10-20ish) pic controllers
on essentially a single (or dual) pair 'conference' line style bus.

Each 'node' may be as complex as a 12508/9 with a switch and led and
hence putting in an ethernet level connection is too costly.

Sooo, I had though of a small rs-485 converter, utp style wire loop
and do the comms in sw. It could be multimaster or master/slave.
master/slave or mulitmaster  would depend on complexity.

Would anyone recommend a particular part for the rs-485 chip?
Any pointers to similiar work would be appreciated.


regards,
Michael Homsey

http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~mhomsey/

Look at Maxim (MAX481) Linear (LTC485) National (75176).  A large number of
this class of device are interchangeable.  There have been quite a few
designs of your type done with these.

For a protocol (is that your next question?) try S.N.A.P. at www.hth.com


Robert Severson
Web Page:    http://www.jged.com 
USBSIMM:     http://usbsimm.home.att.net

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Homsey [mailto:Michael.Homsey@t...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:28 PM
> To: SimmStick Group; piclist
> Subject: [simmstick] request: pic 12508/9 & RS485 in a 
> multinode setup?
> 
> 
> I am looking for advice on linking a number (10-20ish) pic controllers
> on essentially a single (or dual) pair 'conference' line style bus.
> 
> Each 'node' may be as complex as a 12508/9 with a switch and led and
> hence putting in an ethernet level connection is too costly.
> 
> Sooo, I had though of a small rs-485 converter, utp style wire loop
> and do the comms in sw. It could be multimaster or master/slave.
> master/slave or mulitmaster  would depend on complexity.
> 
> Would anyone recommend a particular part for the rs-485 chip?
> Any pointers to similiar work would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> regards,
> Michael Homsey
> 
http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~mhomsey/

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rob, Thanks for the quick response,
exactly what I wanted to hear!


regards,
msh
At 16:51 8/03/00 -0600, you wrote:
>Look at Maxim (MAX481) Linear (LTC485) National (75176).  A large number of
>this class of device are interchangeable.  There have been quite a few
>designs of your type done with these.
>
>For a protocol (is that your next question?) try S.N.A.P. at www.hth.com
>
>
>Robert Severson
>Web Page:    http://www.jged.com 
>USBSIMM:     http://usbsimm.home.att.net
>

SimmStick group:

The Ethernet Simm is something that we have done more than just kick around 
here (at JGED). The hardware has been sketched out and will fit in a 2" 
SimmStick form factor without trouble.

One early objection was that controlling this ethernet card through the 
SimmBus would be nightmarish. The SimmBus was not designed to be a data 
bus.

My thought then was to embed a processor on the card with the ethernet 
controller. This processor would take care of all of the nitty-gritty of 
dealing with the ethernet. It would communicate off-card via a serial bus 
(SYNC/ASYNC).

The thought was that a PIC on a DT101 (for example) would do it's job (data 
gather, monitor switches, turn on relays) and communicate with this card in 
a simple manner. The EtherSimm offloads all of the tough stuff.

Two hurdles remain. First, what protocol(s) to implement? UDP? TCP/IP? This 
could be a lot of work.

Second, is there a market? Would SimmStick users buy an EtherSimm?

-Rob


>
> Subject: SIMM Ethernet
> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 00:09:26 -0700
> From: "Maurice Smulders" <MauriceS@a...>
> To: <don@d...>
>
> Hello Don,
>
> I was just wondering, I don't know whether you know:
> http://www.embeddedethernet.com  ?
> This guy made a card for hooking up to a 8 bit CPU to an ethernet chip, 
in
> order to run IP on it. Maybe very interesting would be to have a 
simmstick
> with this on. I however - don't have the means to get a lot of these 
cards
> out - neither do I have a way of soldering SMDs on a large scale.. I was
> just wondering whether there would be a market for this solution?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Maurice Smulders

At 20:56 3/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
>SimmStick group:
>
>The Ethernet Simm is something that we have done more than just kick around 
>here (at JGED). The hardware has been sketched out and will fit in a 2" 
>SimmStick form factor without trouble.
>
>One early objection was that controlling this ethernet card through the 
>SimmBus would be nightmarish. The SimmBus was not designed to be a data 
>bus.
>
>My thought then was to embed a processor on the card with the ethernet 
>controller. This processor would take care of all of the nitty-gritty of 
>dealing with the ethernet. It would communicate off-card via a serial bus 
>(SYNC/ASYNC).
>
>The thought was that a PIC on a DT101 (for example) would do it's job (data 
>gather, monitor switches, turn on relays) and communicate with this card in 
>a simple manner. The EtherSimm offloads all of the tough stuff.
>
>Two hurdles remain. First, what protocol(s) to implement? UDP? TCP/IP? This 
>could be a lot of work.
>
>Second, is there a market? Would SimmStick users buy an EtherSimm?

Yes, it has already been done. Hit our web page for details! It is called
TINI for Tiny INternet Interface. It's a Dallas Semi product. We have the
first commercial boards for the TINI module, TILT and STEP. TILT is in
stock now, STEP will be next week ahead of schedule. TINI boards however
are backordered from Dallas. They are not fully released until June. The
current ones are beta units which work but the firmware is not complete and
does have bugs. 

There is one which is usually up at 166.70.144.45, you can HTTP or Telent
or FTP to it. Login as superuser ROOT, password TINI.

We are thinking about adding a SIMMstick interface to a future board with a
TINI on it. We are already planning to have SIMM72 stiks which act as
expansion for TINI.

Our idea was to use the SIMMsticks as expansion but most of them seem to
already have controllers on them and the other I/O devices don't have a
real memory-mappable interface, or am I missing something?

Open to ideas and input.

We are wondering if a TINI can be combined with a USBSimm?

- Bruce
---------------------------------------------------------
	 Salt Lake Tribune Headline:
   "On-Line Classrooms Virtually Empty"

Bruce Boyes (bboyes@s...) 
		*** Systronix, Inc ***
Complete Systems for Rapid Embedded Control Development
tel:801.534.1017 fax:-1019  http://www.systronix.com
555 South 300 East, Salt Lake City UT 84111 USA
---------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday, March 08, 2000 9:26 PM, Bruce Boyes 
[SMTP:bboyes@s...] wrote:
> At 20:56 3/8/2000 -0600, you wrote:
> >SimmStick group:
> >
> >The Ethernet Simm is something that we have done more than just kick 
around
> >here (at JGED). The hardware has been sketched out and will fit in a 2"
> >SimmStick form factor without trouble.
> >
> >One early objection was that controlling this ethernet card through the
> >SimmBus would be nightmarish. The SimmBus was not designed to be a data
> >bus.
> >
> >My thought then was to embed a processor on the card with the ethernet
> >controller. This processor would take care of all of the nitty-gritty of 

> >dealing with the ethernet. It would communicate off-card via a serial 
bus
> >(SYNC/ASYNC).
> >
> >The thought was that a PIC on a DT101 (for example) would do it's job 
(data
> >gather, monitor switches, turn on relays) and communicate with this card 
in
> >a simple manner. The EtherSimm offloads all of the tough stuff.
> >
> >Two hurdles remain. First, what protocol(s) to implement? UDP? TCP/IP? 
This
> >could be a lot of work.
> >
> >Second, is there a market? Would SimmStick users buy an EtherSimm?
>



> Yes, it has already been done. Hit our web page for details! It is called
> TINI for Tiny INternet Interface.

My TINI stopped functioning immediately after I folded it to fit in the 
30-pin socket. Did you have more luck with yours?

Yes, I'm aware of the TINI. It might be a reasonable conclusion that 
Ethernet is too "high-end" for the SimmStick(tm) format. After all, the 
SimmSticks are generally PIC things.

TINI is a Java-based monster in comparison. (Nothing wrong with what it is. 
I feel that it is a different class of device. Like comparing a calculator 
and a PC.)


> It's a Dallas Semi product. We have the
> first commercial boards for the TINI module, TILT and STEP. TILT is in
> stock now, STEP will be next week ahead of schedule.

A co-worker will be delighted.


> We are thinking about adding a SIMMstick interface to a future board with 
a
> TINI on it. We are already planning to have SIMM72 stiks which act as
> expansion for TINI.

Do it. As I have mentioned before (on the TINI list) you cant go wrong to 
couple the SimmBus to the TINI.


> Our idea was to use the SIMMsticks as expansion but most of them seem to
> already have controllers on them and the other I/O devices don't have a
> real memory-mappable interface, or am I missing something?

SimmBus was not intended (OK I guess I'm speaking on behalf of the creator 
[??] ) to be a data bus. It was intended to be a port bus. To interface 
with TINI (on a STEP+SimmBus board) I'd use a programmable peripheral part 
to interface to the SimmBus pins.

The TINI can communicate with any SimmBus peripheral OR even a SimmStick 
with a PIC/Atmel/Scenix part. Co-processors! Cool?


> Open to ideas and input.

> We are wondering if a TINI can be combined with a USBSimm?

Yep! Email me at usb -at- jged.com and we can talk. (We should stop 
littering the SimmStick list with TINI.)

To bring this back around, I'll propose (and produce?) a TINI-ish SimmStick 
IF there is interest. (but I have my doubts).

I'm still interested in contributing more SimmStick designs (in addition to 
the i/o board) if there is interest. Hey Bruce, if you add a 30pin bus to 
your STEP what type of demand for interesting peripheral would there be? 
The TINI offers the 1wire. How much more could be done with an i/o board, a 
multi-channel A/D board, relay boards, etc.

See? Consider the SimmBus to be the peripheral/port expansion bus for the 
TINI and so much more opens up for TINI users!

-Rob

USBSIMM costs exactly as much as my USB AGFA scanner

and it only twiddles a few bits

economy of scale I guess   ;)

                    Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: Severson, Rob <severson@j...>
To: <simmstick@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 11:15 AM
Subject: [simmstick] Re: New I/O SimmStick, and an old one revisited.


> WOW! What a GREAT IDEA! (Or don't I get a vote?)
>
> I just wanted to mention, that in addition to my USBSIMM SimmStick article
> in the March Circuit Cellar, Jack Ganssle mentions the USBSIMM in March
> Embedded Systems Programming and Jan Axelson mentions it in Nuts & Volts,
> also in March.
>
> I hope that this positive press also adds to the SimmStick momentum.
>
> Anybody willing to provide feedback?
>
> Take care,
> -Rob
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don McKenzie [mailto:don@d...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 5:19 PM
> > To: simmstick@e...
> > Subject: [simmstick] New I/O SimmStick, and an old one revisited.
> >
> >
> > Robert Severson has come up with a little I/O board
> > on a 2" SimmStick, and he is very happy to pass the
> > design on to me to produce, as he would like to present
> > the design to the SimmStick world at no cost.
> >
> > As Rob says, in the interest of providing more
> > SimmStick momentum,
> >
> > I have put some gifs up at:
> > http://www.dontronics.com/!1.gif
> > http://www.dontronics.com/!2.gif
> >
> > The schematic only shows one of three possible channels.
> >
> > This is Rob's initial description of the board.
> > ===============================================
> > This is preliminary and a little rough, but this is the I/O board
> > that I mentioned previously. The board has three Philips 8574 parts.
> > These
> > parts are I2C to 8 bits input or output. Three of these would give you
> > 24
> > i/o lines. On board also are three 18 pin sockets that can be
> > populated
> > with ULN2803 drivers for higher output current capability.
> > The sockets
> > could be instead populated with resistor DIP packages if the parts are
> > used
> > for input. You can have a mix of ports, like this:
> >
> > 24 output lines
> > 24 input lines
> > 16 out 8 in
> > 8 out 16 in
> >
> > The input can be used to scan switches, the output to light LEDs. A
> > keyboard with 128 keys could be scanned. Relays can be driven.
> > Interrupts
> > are even supported by the 8574, although the pin remains undedicated.
> > (User
> > wires this.)
> >
> > Each package has address decode jumpers. Two of these cards can exist
> > in a
> > system.
> >
> > The 16 SimmBus port lines also extend to the header. A 60pin dual
> > insulation displacement connector can plug into this header to bring
> > all
> > signals off-board. Five 10-pin duals could plug in (two pins remain
> > unused
> > as spacers) one connector per port.
> > ==================
> >
> > I have listed Rob's contact info below.
> > If you read Circuit Cellar Inc, you will see his
> > USBSIMM design on page 10 this month.
> >
> > =================
> > Robert Severson
> > Senior Design Engineer
> >
> > J. Gordon Electronic Design, Inc.
> > 201 85th Ave NW
> > Minneapolis, MN 55433
> >
> > Phone:       (612) 786-2405 x136
> > Fax:         (612) 786-5778
> > Email:       severson@j...
> > Web Page:    http://www.jged.com
> > USBSIMM:     http://usbsimm.home.att.net
> > =================
> >
> > Also please have a look at:
> > http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html
> > This is a new board we are designing for the AVR family.
> > Apart from "yes looks good Don", we have had no
> > constructive critisism yet, and would appreciate it.
> >
> > We want to know what you would like in the way of designs
> > for SimmStick.
> >
> > Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...
> > http://www.dontronics.com
> >
> > World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR
> > and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
> > Free Basic Compiler and Programmer
> > http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > To Post a message, send it to:   simmstick@e...
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
> > simmstick-unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------
> > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/2130/5/_/180207/_/952471123/
> >
> > -- Check out your group's private Chat room
> > -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=simmstick&m=1
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To Post a message, send it to:   simmstick@e...
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: simmstick-unsubscribe@e...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:
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>
> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!
> -- http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=simmstick&m=1
>
>

> The thought was that a PIC on a DT101 (for example) would do it's job
(data
> gather, monitor switches, turn on relays) and communicate with this
card in
> a simple manner. The EtherSimm offloads all of the tough stuff.

> Two hurdles remain. First, what protocol(s) to implement? UDP? TCP/IP?
This
> could be a lot of work.

I'd vote for IP. That seems to be the way the world is moving.


> Second, is there a market? Would SimmStick users buy an EtherSimm?

I could find a use for several of those.




.

cc to simmstick group and dontronics dealers.

we are about to complete the schematic of the dt006 runavr board.
http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html
whatever we decide on the 8 and 28 pin avr devices, will be the
SimmStick standard from now on, so if anyone has any input at all, now
is the time to speak up. 

Although the 28 pin device caters for A/D, we are looking at this board
with simplicity in mind, so it's mainly a digital design platform for 20
pin AVR micros, we have simply allowed provision for 8 and 28 pin
devices to be programmed and used.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

Lionel Theunissen has been working on a Text on Video project, and hopes
to put it all on a 2" SimmStick.

He is looking for feedback on the project which can be seen at:
http://www.dontronics.com/vid.html

Those that aren't aware, Lionel was the Second Prize Winner in our
inaugural Microcontroller SimmStick 1999 design contest, and we are
organizing right now for the continuation into the SimmStick Contest
2000, and will be calling for entries soon.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

Don,

I'm not sure where you are at in the consideration of the DTxxx design that 
I sent, but we may make a limited run here. We have a customer for the 
design and may have two. If the layout is done at work, then I would hold 
off my use of Eagle and just do it the "right" way at work.

Are there any changes that you can think would be appropriate for the 
design? (I'll add bypass caps.)

-Rob

Don and SimmStick group.

> He is looking for feedback on the project which can be seen at:
> http://www.dontronics.com/vid.html

Whoa! I'm gonna start complaining about my age and eyesight! If the 
schematic could be made into a gif, rather than a jpg, the fuzzies won't 
develop.


> Those that aren't aware, Lionel was the Second Prize Winner in our
> inaugural Microcontroller SimmStick 1999 design contest, and we are
> organizing right now for the continuation into the SimmStick Contest
> 2000, and will be calling for entries soon.

Good for Lionel, and great that the contest will happen again. Just give me 
the word and I'll start to promote it.

I very happy to see this SimmStick momentum. Cool.

-Rob

Robert Severson wrote:
> 
> Don,
> 
> I'm not sure where you are at in the consideration of the DTxxx design that
> I sent, but we may make a limited run here. We have a customer for the
> design and may have two. If the layout is done at work, then I would hold
> off my use of Eagle and just do it the "right" way at work.
> 
> Are there any changes that you can think would be appropriate for the
> design? (I'll add bypass caps.)

Apart from a comment about reducing the board size a little, i have no
other practical feedback for you on this one Rob. i have had some users
say they could make use of it.

Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

Greetings;

Does anybody know of any dealers who sells DT simmstick boards
in single unit quantities in the US?

Thank you;


Jeffrey D. Spears
University of Michigan
College of Engineering

``Double-E, can't spell gEEk without it!''
			-Captain Gerald M. Bloomfield II, USMC
			 (my brother)

At 08:57 PM 03/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Greetings; Does anybody know of any dealers who sells DT simmstick boards
in single unit quantities in the US?
>Thank you;
>Jeffrey D. Spears
>University of Michigan
>College of Engineering
>``Double-E, can't spell gEEk without it!''
>			-Captain Gerald M. Bloomfield II, USMC
>			 (my brother)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To Post a message, send it to:   simmstick@e...
>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: simmstick-unsubscribe@e...
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>eLerts!
>It’s easy. It’s fun. Best of all, it’s free.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2073/6/_/180207/_/953344671/
>eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/simmstick/
>http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

follow my link to wirz electronics at  http://ic.mankato.mn.us/~douglas

hope this help's
douglas
  http://ic.mankato.mn.us/~douglas
  douglas@i...
 Douglas J.A.R. Sasse
 P.O.Box 1064
 Mankato, Minnesota 56002-1064
 U.S.A.
 
 douglas@m...
 http://mnic.net/~douglas

CC: Dealers, egroups.

The latest on the rAVeR board.
http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html
http://www.dontronics.com/graphics/dt006act.gif

Hi Guys,

the schematic above hasn't changed, however i am still to update the
overlay.

I think we are finished as far as the schematic is concerned.

Mick spent about 4-5 hours drinking....  errrr......  I mean working on
the project yesterday with me.

Points to note*****

No links across the headers will be tracked. We figure it will run stand
alone as far as the 20 pin chip is concerned, and myself and mick
remember when we first started cutting tracks on our expensive TRS-80's
in about 1978, and would would have much preferred to put in header pins
and test links.

So, no tracks at all. If you want the 8 LEDs, you have to solder in a
2x8 header and put 8 links in. OK?

No resistor in D6 programmer line. We didn't get around to testing if
this works or not. Not a big point.

I still have do do a hole size check manually, and scan the schematic
for potential errors, but we are almost through, and would hope to
submit the artwork in a week.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........  If anyone has any ideas or comments, this is
you very very final last chance.

Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR and  PICmicro Hardware and  Software.
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html

Gday Don,All,


> Mick spent about 4-5 hours drinking....  errrr......  I mean working on
> the project yesterday with me.

Hic!! What are you trying to say there? Hic!!

> SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........  If anyone has any ideas or comments, this is
> you very very final last chance.

Well until REV B that is!!

Mik

Don,

> No links across the headers will be tracked. We figure it will run stand
> alone as far as the 20 pin chip is concerned, and myself and mick
> remember when we first started cutting tracks on our expensive TRS-80's
> in about 1978, and would would have much preferred to put in header pins
> and test links.
>
> So, no tracks at all. If you want the 8 LEDs, you have to solder in a
> 2x8 header and put 8 links in. OK?

This is the way to go.


Short story: I had a board with a link across the header pin, but didn't 
know it. With the jumper in place, the software behaved the same as with 
the jumper removed. Odd. Re-check the software. Same thing. Re-write 
software. Same thing. Check board for short. Aha! There must be a solder 
splash. Clean up soldering job. The short is still there. Frustration led 
me to attach the power supply directly to the two pins. Note: one was 
ground, the other from a chip that was socketed that I had removed. To run 
the power supply leads, the board was upside-down on the bench. My eyes 
stayed on the power supply and watched the current meter peg and then drop. 
"That'll fix that short".

The header was on the surface of the bench. It had unsoldered itself and 
dropped!

The problem? The link was on the TOP SURFACE. It was concealed directly 
under where the header mounted.

The cure? Beer. And lots of it....

> If anyone has any ideas or comments, this is you very very final last 
chance.

I don't know the AVR from my ay ess ess. Don (and Mick): Good luck with the 
DT006!

-Rob Severson

hello,

i just put together my dt001, followed the instructions on the web
site and went w/ the Mainboard and the Programmer parts (i also added
the reset button and R15)

also put together a dt101 and a dt203

this is where i am at:

the dt203 works correctly in all 4 simm sockets i put on the dt001.

the dt101 has a pic (16F84-10) a crystal, caps C3 and C4, R1,2,3,4 and
5 and 24LC08B

I can program the pic from windows (everything seems to go well) and i
can "Read Pic" and get mostly the same HEX file back. I say mostly
'cause i get an extra two lines back:

these lines are added to wl84.hex right before the last line:

:08400000FF00FF00FF00FF00BC
:02400E00F100BF

but they don't seem to change the output of the disassembler..

so i can program the PIC and i can read the program back from the pic,
but i can't run it!

i flip the toggle to "run" and SCL, SDA and IO go high. that's all.

do i need the regulator on the dt101?

how can i check that XTL1 is running (i don't have an o-scope)? 

thanks

henri