SimmStick Design Contest 2000

SimmStick Dealers World Wide are proud to
announce the SimmStick Design Contest 2000.

Design your system using SimmStick products
and win up to $1000 USD cash!

The Contest 99 first prize was $500, and was won by
Robert LACOSTE from CHAVILLE in FRANCE.
This first prize value has now been doubled to $1000USD.
Robert designed a new SimmStick-compatible PCB for
SCENIX 28 pin processors, 

This, and all other entries can be seen at:
http://www.simmstick.com/entries.htm

The latest Contest 2000 entries can be seen at:
http://simmstick.com/entries-.htm
 
SimmStick products currently support PICmicro and
Atmel Micro controllers (8051/AVR), however you may
use any micro of your choice, provided it is mounted
on a SimmStick board.

For more information, point your browser at:
http://www.simmstick.com
or
http://www.dontronics.com/ssinfo.html
 
Welcome and have fun!

/World Wide SimmStick Dealers.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

PICLOADER is a resident bootloader for the Microchip PIC16F87x series of
FLASH based microcontrollers.
http://www.dontronics.com/rfarmer.html 

free files, pcb design etc.
 
Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

silly question, but i figure it's worth a shot:

is there any way to build an EPROM programmer out of a DT001 ?

the situation:

i have an old pinball machine that has bad ROM chips, i found the
images online and need to burn 2716 EPROMs  (24pin 2K x8)

possible? could i make a stick that would work w/ the DT001?

thanks

henri

henri wrote:
> 
> silly question, but i figure it's worth a shot:
> 
> is there any way to build an EPROM programmer out of a DT001 ?
> 
> the situation:
> 
> i have an old pinball machine that has bad ROM chips, i found the
> images online and need to burn 2716 EPROMs  (24pin 2K x8)
> 
> possible? could i make a stick that would work w/ the DT001?
> 
> thanks
> 
> henri

I had an old pin ball machine not that long ago that had relay logic
only, and I wish i never sold it.
a lot of fun!

The closest the dt001 comes to being able to convert to an eprom
programmer is the fact it has a db-25 connector on it, or it has a comms
port, as past this point, it really differs.

To me, there are two ways of making an eprom burner.

1) printer port driven.
through a set of counters, or a logic of latches, or special I/Ochips
like an 8255, or even a micro. You need this to expand from the number
of signals available from the port, the the required number needed to
program an eprom.

2)
rs-232 comms driven. seen this done with a simple old fashioned 6402
type uart, or a modern micro would work just fine too. Again, this
expands from the serial stream of information to the lines needed to
program eproms.

in both cases, a special power supply is needed. voltages required are
25, 21, 12, and 5v I think covers it. most of the older 2716 chips
started off at 25v, and over the years, the voltages came down.

so, it is must be a voltage controlled pin applied to the device to be
burnt.

To make a dt001 into an eprom burner, i think i would use the rs-232
comms only, and design a SimmStick that has a 40 pin chip on board, with
suitable power supply circuitry, ZIF socket, etc.

and I didn't mention the different pinouts for different eproms, you
have to cater for this with either dip switches, config blocks, or even
different positioning of the zif socket like i have done on the dt206
board.

as you may see, i used to design and play with these things years ago,
but I haven't used an eprom burner in perhaps 7 years, so I never
migrated it across to my new designs.

I figure if i really wanted one today, i would buy a PC plug in card.

Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

> PICLOADER is a resident bootloader for the Microchip PIC16F87x series
> of FLASH based microcontrollers.
> http://www.dontronics.com/rfarmer.html 
> 
> free files, pcb design etc.
> 
> Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...     
> http://www.dontronics.com
> 
I assume it doesn't work with the 16F872 which doesn't have a 
UART?

Mike DeMetz wrote:
> 
> > PICLOADER is a resident bootloader for the Microchip PIC16F87x series
> > of FLASH based microcontrollers.
> > http://www.dontronics.com/rfarmer.html
> >
> > free files, pcb design etc.
> I assume it doesn't work with the 16F872 which doesn't have a
> UART?

Yes, I'm sure your assumption is correct Mike.
Rick was loosing his ISP and site, so he asked me to host this one for
him.

Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

Dear all,

I would like to take this oppertunity to announce a new
SimmStick compatible product from LAWICEL. It will be
availibe from the Dontronics SimmStick Dealers World wide
and other selected dealers.

The new board is an 1" Atmel AVR controller board similar
to the DT104 from Dontronics, the main difference is that
is is SMD and only core components, leaving a "huge" area
for wire wrapping. It has the same pins from the controller
connected to the SimmStick bus as the DT104 making it easy
to use this board in future products where DT104 has been
used (unless you don't use the other components on the DT104).
Also this board comes fully populated built and tested.

Features:

* AT90S2313-10SI running at 10Mhz
* Hole mounted Chrystal makes it easy to customize
* Ground layer on both sides under MC & Chrystal for good EMI
* MAX202CSE for RS232 up to 250kbit
* MAX825M for proper Reset
* 78L05 5V regulator with 100mA (jumper to enable)
* DT104 bus & core compatible
* Can be programmed in DT006
* One 0805 SMD Red LED for general purpose usage.

For more info visit the preliminary page at:
http://www.lawicel.com/simmstick/simm101/
or feel free to contact me for further details.

Price is estimated to about $36US each in single quantity
and boards will be on the market in 3-4 weeks from now.
(and yes, we do have the AVR's to make them ;-)

Thanks Don for a nice platform to build boards on
and to all for taking the time to read this.

Regards

/Lars

----------------------------------------------------------
LAWICEL / SWEDEN           Phone  : +46 (0)451 - 598 77
Lars Wictorsson            Fax    : +46 (0)451 - 598 78
E-mail: lars@l...   WWW    : http://www.lawicel.com

Embedded hardware/software together with 8051/C16x/AVR and 
smart distributed I/O with CAN  (Controller Area Network).
See CANDIP at http://www.lawicel.com/candip/   AVR+SJA1000
----------------------------------------------------------

Hi Stefan,

> Lars Wictorsson [mailto:lars@l...]wrote:
> > Price is estimated to about $36US each in single quantity
> 
> I guess this is the price of a complete board. Will bare PCBs be available
> too (might be even sooner than the complete boards)?

This is the price for a complete board (all components
mounted, tested and pre-programmed with a demo software,
which the user can test when he gets the board to verify
that all is OK.

Then if the market demands a bare board ;-) the price will be
a standard empty 1" board cost from the dealers which is
about $6USD if I recall correct. But for many I think it will
be hard to get single quantity SMD parts at a fair price
(like the MAX202, AT90S2313 & 78L05, then the MAX825M isn't
sold in single quantity more than maybe 4-5 times the price
I pay for a roll of 2500). But if people prefer to buy them
empty, I won't stop them for doing so, however the first
batch of boards will be sent away for soldering and I will
only keep a few for initial testing which I will solder
manually to verify hardware. So in this case I think the
soldered ready made boards will be on the market first.

Thanks for asking!

/Lars

Lars,

This is a great looking board! And for that matter the color schematic is a
nice touch. Good luck with your board production. This looks like a great
product.


-Rob Severson


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Wictorsson [mailto:lars@l...]
> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 7:17 AM
> To: avr@egroups.com; atmel@p...; bascom@g...;
> simmstick@egroups.com
> Subject: [simmstick] [ANN] New SimmStick compatible product...
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I would like to take this oppertunity to announce a new
> SimmStick compatible product from LAWICEL. It will be
> availibe from the Dontronics SimmStick Dealers World wide
> and other selected dealers.
> 
> The new board is an 1" Atmel AVR controller board similar
> to the DT104 from Dontronics, the main difference is that
> is is SMD and only core components, leaving a "huge" area
> for wire wrapping. It has the same pins from the controller
> connected to the SimmStick bus as the DT104 making it easy
> to use this board in future products where DT104 has been
> used (unless you don't use the other components on the DT104).
> Also this board comes fully populated built and tested.
> 
> Features:
> 
> * AT90S2313-10SI running at 10Mhz
> * Hole mounted Chrystal makes it easy to customize
> * Ground layer on both sides under MC & Chrystal for good EMI
> * MAX202CSE for RS232 up to 250kbit
> * MAX825M for proper Reset
> * 78L05 5V regulator with 100mA (jumper to enable)
> * DT104 bus & core compatible
> * Can be programmed in DT006
> * One 0805 SMD Red LED for general purpose usage.
> 
> For more info visit the preliminary page at:
> http://www.lawicel.com/simmstick/simm101/
> or feel free to contact me for further details.
> 
> Price is estimated to about $36US each in single quantity
> and boards will be on the market in 3-4 weeks from now.
> (and yes, we do have the AVR's to make them ;-)
> 
> Thanks Don for a nice platform to build boards on
> and to all for taking the time to read this.
> 
> Regards
> 
> /Lars
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> LAWICEL / SWEDEN           Phone  : +46 (0)451 - 598 77
> Lars Wictorsson            Fax    : +46 (0)451 - 598 78
> E-mail: lars@l...   WWW    : http://www.lawicel.com
> 
> Embedded hardware/software together with 8051/C16x/AVR and 
> smart distributed I/O with CAN  (Controller Area Network).
> See CANDIP at http://www.lawicel.com/candip/   AVR+SJA1000
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------<e|-
> Test your WML code with our
> Online WAP Testing Tool at
> http://click.egroups.com/1/7799/12/_/180207/_/966514611/
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------|e>-
> 
> To Post a message, send it to:   simmstick@e...
> 
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: 
> simmstick-unsubscribe@e...
>

As we recently released a new µC-board based on the ATMEL AVR ATmega103,
I'd like to present this also to the readers / members of the above
groups.
You'll find a detailed description in PDF-format at :
http://www.ewetel.net/~bamberg.monsees/

Here's a short overview :
The µC is supported by the peripheral devices present on the module. 
Here, you will find 32 kByte SRAM, a Power-on-Reset-Generator, 
an ISP-interface, an RS-232 level converter, a reference voltage 
source (4.096V) and an address decoder (GAL20V8). 
All controller ports, the address lines A0-A15 and the data lines D0-D7 
as well as all supply- and reference voltages are brought out through 
one 72-pole PS/2-connector. The RS232-signals and the powersupply are 
available also on extra connectors.
Because of the flexible arrangement of the address decoder, the address 
area of the external SRAM as well as the address area for your external 
peripherals can be easily customised as per your requirements.
The size of the board, the implementation of plug-in modules and the 
clear layout enables an easy integration into your hardware
developments. 
This is further supported by the 72-pole PS/2-connection.
For this µController system, a PASCAL compiler is available with an 
integrated assembler and simulator. The compiler includes an interface, 
including the programming hardware, for In-Circuit-Programming. The 
compiler enables fast and simple implementation of applications such as 
I²C-Bus, SPI-Bus, LCD-graphics display, LCD-text-display, 7-segment 
LED-display, RS232- and SPI-Interface, stepper motor control,
LAN-Systems, 
PWM-controls, matrix-keyboards, PID-controller, etc. Also, Multitasking-
applications are possible.
The compiler can also be used to program many other µC from ATMEL.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, don't hesitate to contact 
us for more informations.

regards,
     R. Monsees


-- 
         BAMBERG & MONSEES GbR
 Systeme für Wissenschaft und Technik
    Steindamm 22 * D-28719 Bremen
Fon +49-421-646775 * Fax +49-421-646785
http://www.ewetel.net/~bamberg.monsees/

21-Aug-2000
Hi Don! I've finished my PDF "HowTo" text concerning the simple little
hexapod project I did with the DT104.
Thanks for the pictures! http://home.mayn.de/hyla/how2hex.pdf  Of course
it's an eternal "work in progress". Too often my job gets in the way of
the real important things in life ;) Cheers, Christoph Klein.

21-Aug-2000 Updated
Pick of the PIC PIC's. Pictures of Industry People.
http://www.dontronics.com/ppp.html

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

We now have a supply of mini RF data modules.
These modules are very easy to use and have a range of upto 100m
See http://www.sages.com.au/rf.htm for further details and see
http://www.sages.com.au/applicat.htm for application info.
Regards
Rod Egan

********************************************************************
              Sage Telecommunications Pty Ltd
                   Hardware, Software Engineers,
                  Embedded Systems Specialists,
          Dontronics Reseller, Blue Squirrel Affiliate,
                         Desktop Publishers
               email: rod@s...
               Web site:  www.sages.com.au
********************************************************************

Sage Telecommunications wrote:
> 
> We now have a supply of mini RF data modules.
> These modules are very easy to use and have a range of upto 100m
> See http://www.sages.com.au/rf.htm for further details and see
> http://www.sages.com.au/applicat.htm for application info.
> Regards
> Rod Egan

nice work Rod, I'll add it to my news page and newsletter.
Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

From: Don McKenzie <don@d...>
> Subject: Re: Mini RF Data modules
> ...
> nice work Rod, I'll add it to my news page and newsletter.

Hi Don, are you going to take the modules in your portfolio?

-- 
Stefan Wimmer                        ADVA AG Optical Networking
Email   SWimmer@a...       Justus-von-Liebig-Str. 7
WWW     http://www.cellware.de/      12489 Berlin, Germany

Visit my private Homepage:  Love, Electronics, Rockets, Fireworks!
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6368/

----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Wimmer <swimmer@a...>
To: <simmstick@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 5:21 PM
Subject: AW: [simmstick] Digest Number 65


> From: Don McKenzie <don@d...>
> > Subject: Re: Mini RF Data modules
> > ...
> > nice work Rod, I'll add it to my news page and newsletter.
>
> Hi Don, are you going to take the modules in your portfolio?
>
> --
> Stefan Wimmer                        ADVA AG Optical Networking
> Email   SWimmer@a...       Justus-von-Liebig-Str. 7
> WWW     http://www.cellware.de/      12489 Berlin, Germany

Hi Stefan,
As you may be aware I am also a DonTronics Reseller ( as are several people
around the world ). Each of us has various interests and whilst we all sell
SimmSticks, we tend to have different product ranges. I can't speak for Don
( or the other dealers ) so I don't know if he is going to stock these
modules or not.
So if you are interested in the RF modules ( and simmsticks <grin> ) I offer
the same service and guarantees as Don ( for the products I sell ).
I am in no way in competition with DonTronics, we just sell overlapping
product ranges.
Regards
Rod Egan

********************************************************************
              Sage Telecommunications Pty Ltd
                   Hardware, Software Engineers,
                  Embedded Systems Specialists,
          Dontronics Reseller, Blue Squirrel Affiliate,
                         Desktop Publishers
               email: rod@s...
               Web site:  www.sages.com.au
********************************************************************

Sage Telecommunications wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
> As you may be aware I am also a DonTronics Reseller ( as are several people
> around the world ). Each of us has various interests and whilst we all sell
> SimmSticks, we tend to have different product ranges. I can't speak for Don
> ( or the other dealers ) so I don't know if he is going to stock these
> modules or not.
> So if you are interested in the RF modules ( and simmsticks <grin> ) I offer
> the same service and guarantees as Don ( for the products I sell ).
> I am in no way in competition with DonTronics, we just sell overlapping
> product ranges.
> Regards
> Rod Egan

Yes, you will find every dealer has his own interests, and very soon
there will be some nice new SMD SimmSticks making appearances. Not all
dealers will stock these either, but I think we will have good coverage
in the US, Europe, and Australia.

There is no reason not to buy your SimmStick products from someone who
can supply individual items produced by them also.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

31-Aug-2000 
SIMM101 SimmStick compatible (DT104 Compatible) This is just a simple
"put together" of the new SimmStick board, which will be availible
through SimmStick dealers world wide. 
http://www.lawicel.com/simmstick/simm101/ 
 
Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

What books, hardware do I need to start programimg the 
16f877?
A comprehensive listy will be appreciated.
Cheers  Guy

Guy North wrote:

> What books, hardware do I need to start programimg the
> 16f877?
> A comprehensive listy will be appreciated.
> Cheers  Guy

Hi Guy, as you posted this on the SimmStick list, I'll give the answers
in SimmStick terms.

You can do it with:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt001.html programmer
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html 877 target board.
http://www.dontronics.com/p16pro.html software driver to get from a hex
file to the chip.

Books, depends a lot of what entry level, and what language you wish to
program with.

Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

Fellow List Members,

I know this is really off topic but a MD friend of mine is trying to find a 
used (or new) HP5L laser printer in good condition.  The reason for this need 
is he is locked into a particular software package which supports very few 
laser printers and the HP5L was the one his office purchased for him.  I went 
to the HP web site and even called HP without success (The Model HP5L is 
considered obsolete).

If any of you members of these lists want to get a newer printer now might be 
an opportunity to sell your older HP5L and use the proceeds to move into a 
newer model.

If you have one please E-mail me with a price if you are interested.

Thanks and Regards,
Ed

2-Sep-2000 
DT107.html New 40 pin Atmel (8515) SimmStick. Advance info. Feedback
welcome 
There is circuitry there now to support the BasicX-01 chip and EEPROM. 
http://www.dontronics.com/dt107.html 

We hope to finish the final design in the next 7 days, so if anyone has
any comments at all, we would appreciate then now and not after we go
into production.

We always get, "Why didn't you do this"? after the event. :-)
Cheers Don...

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

2-Sep-2000 
RS-232 AVR Programmer using the DT003 and DT104 SimmSticks.  
Now programs 1200, 2313, and 8515. Others should follow quickly. 
http://www.dontronics.com/avr_232.html 

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

2-Sep-2000 
RS-232 AVR Programmer using the DT003 and DT104 SimmSticks.  
Now programs 1200, 2313, and 8515. Others should follow quickly. 
http://www.dontronics.com/avr_232.html 

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

I just want to check if I got my big picture right.
The Simmstick is a printed circuit board which has a PIC 
microprocessor on it and can be pushed in (like clipped) onto
other boards made by DONtronics only.
The AVR is from AMTEL and is a microcontroller which just push
in a 20 or 40 pins sockets.
The simmstick PIC xx877 can run at 20Mhz but the AVR will only run 
at 4 Mhz? is that correct?

The simmstick can be programmed in C, QBASIC and TASM
The AVR can be programmed - I don't know...

What is the main use of the simmstick and the AVR?

Can a simmstick programmer board be used to program also an AVR?

The memory of a simmstick is a sort of EEPROM? is this correct?
Is the memory of the AVR also an EEPROM?
In both cases is it possible to add extra EEPROM to a simmstick or an 
AVR?
The PIC 16F877 is the latest in the line of PIC
What about with AMTEL, what is the latest model number
Most probably I am going to ask a question totally out of context and 
 be booted out by the moderator of this group. In all the electronics 
magazine I see the word BASIC STAMP. I can see roughly the difference 
between BASIC STAMP and PIC. BASIC STAMP is NOT as fast as PIC, but 
what are the other differences.
Moderator of this group, please remember I am NOT trying to be 
offensive to the group but trying to get a big picture in the scene
of 
microcontrollers where I am going to spend a few of dollars inthe 
months to come. 
A very curious newbies.  Cheers  Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Guy North <aufempen@d...>
To: <simmstick@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 4 September 2000 14:14
Subject: [simmstick] newbies:differences between simmstick and AVR?
>
> I just want to check if I got my big picture right.
> The Simmstick is a printed circuit board which has a PIC
> microprocessor on it and can be pushed in (like clipped) onto
> other boards made by DONtronics only.


Try http://www.simmstick.com for a brief rundown on what a simmstick is.
You need to remember that Simmstick describes the PCB and it's physical
connection via 'simm' connectors. It has nothing to do with what is on the
PCB.
Different people design, manufacture and sell SimmStick compatible PCB's.
Keep asking questions.
regards
Rod Egan



********************************************************************
                Sage Telecommunications Pty Ltd
                  Embedded Systems Specialists,
          Dontronics Reseller, Desktop Publishers
                    PO Box 2171,  Warwick
                     Western Australia  6024
      Ph +61 (0)8 9344-8474, Fax +61 (0)8 9344-3603
email: rod@s...  Web site:  www.sages.com.au
********************************************************************

This article by Lance Turner, was found this month in an Australlian
magazine by Rod Egan. 
The magazine has been in publication for 20 odd years, and Rod is a
subscriber.

Lance (a Dontronics customer also), kindly sent me a copy of the
magazine.

In issue 73 of ReNew they published an article on datalogging using a
dedicated microcomputer board. 
Below are the links and files associated with the DT006 and Bascom-AVR
http://ata.org.au/
http://ata.org.au/71datalogger.htm

Get the Bascom-AVR software from MCS Electronics 
Bascom-AVR datalogging program for Dontronics DT-006 board, as per ReNew
#73 
Bascom-AVR datalogging program for Dontronics DT-006 board, with LCD
driver 
Bascom-AVR datalogging program for Dontronics DT-006 board, 2 channel
logging 
Bascom-AVR datalogging program for Dontronics DT-006 board, 10 bit
logging 

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

Hi Guy,

I will try to answer some of your questions...

> I just want to check if I got my big picture right.
> The Simmstick is a printed circuit board which has a PIC 
> microprocessor on it and can be pushed in (like clipped) onto
> other boards made by DONtronics only.
> The AVR is from AMTEL and is a microcontroller which just push
> in a 20 or 40 pins sockets.

Well, the SimmStick platform has nothing to do with PIC or AVR etc.
it is just the concept how the boards looks like in dimensions,
signals etc. on the bus. A SimmStick board can be equipped with
any microcontroller of your choice and today there are SimmStick
boards that has a PICmicro controller, Atmel 8051, Atmel AVR and
Scenix SX etc.

> The simmstick PIC xx877 can run at 20Mhz but the AVR will only run 
> at 4 Mhz? is that correct?

Same here, the "SimmStick PIC xx877" as you refer to above is a
simmstick board (DT106) with a PICmicro controller type 16F877.
PICmicro's need to divide the chrystal speed by 4 when running,
so 20Mhz gives you 5MIPS (5 miljon in instructions per second),
while the AVR has 1MIPS/1Mhz and some AVR's has max speed of
4Mhz, some 6Mhz-10Mhz while the fastest (but not so usable IMO)
has 12Mhz (=AT90S1200). So comparing the 16F877 running at 20Mhz
and the AT90S8535 (which has ADC as the 877) runs at 8Mhz, gives
the AVR a 8/5 more speed. The PICmicro has less code memory
than the AVR, so you could fit more program into it. The PICmicro
has also a strange memory bacnk switching that you have to think
of when using e.g. Assembler, the AVR has a straight memory, no
hassles at all.

> The simmstick can be programmed in C, QBASIC and TASM
> The AVR can be programmed - I don't know...

Same here as well, the SimmStick has nothing to do with
languages, it is the controller on the SimmStick that has to
do with that. So both a controller of PICmicro or an AVR
on a SimmStick board can be programmed in either Assembler,
C, Basic etc. (any language that is supported for the controller).

> What is the main use of the simmstick and the AVR?

This is personal, but I prefer AVR before PICmicro, your
question above should be written "What is the main use of
the PICmicro and the AVR" (since SimmStick has nothing to
do with it).

> Can a simmstick programmer board be used to program also an AVR?

yes, check out the DT006 board that is an AVR platform and
can be used as a base board for programming other SimmStick
boards with an AVR controller on it.

> The memory of a simmstick is a sort of EEPROM? is this correct?
> Is the memory of the AVR also an EEPROM?

Memory is 3 things:

Code Memory (where you store your program) is normally FLASH.
User RAM    (where you store variables) is RAM or registers.
User EEPROM (where you store parameters to be saved when power is off).

Both PICmicro and AVR has both of these memories depending on
chip type, they have more or less of them.

> In both cases is it possible to add extra EEPROM to a simmstick or an 
> AVR?

Yes, through either SPI or I2C busses.

> The PIC 16F877 is the latest in the line of PIC
> What about with AMTEL, what is the latest model number

AVR is a family, so you can't say there is any latest,
new arrives when new perephials comes and more memory,
but the latest that will come in AVR is the ATmega163
(next year), which is an upgrade of AT90S8535, which
has 8k code, 512bytes RAM & 512bytes EEPROM.

AVR's that are used today is:

AT90S2313: 2k Code, 128bytes RAM, 128bytes EEPROM, no ADC
AT90S8515: 8k Code, 512bytes RAM, 512bytes EEPROM, no ADC but
           possibility to add extra 64k SRAM.
AT90S8535: 8k Code, 512bytes RAM, 512bytes EEPROM, 8ch 10bit ADC but
           no possibility to add extra RAM (unless you make
           software support for it).

SimmStick boards for the above excists:

AT90S2313: DT104, DT006 or the new SIMM101 from us (availible in 2 weeks)
AT90S8515: DT103 or the new DT107 comming soon.
AT90S8535: SIMM100

> Most probably I am going to ask a question totally out of context and 
>  be booted out by the moderator of this group. In all the electronics 
> magazine I see the word BASIC STAMP. I can see roughly the difference 
> between BASIC STAMP and PIC. BASIC STAMP is NOT as fast as PIC, but 
> what are the other differences.

Don't be affraid to ask, the BASICstamp is a PICmicro, but it
is running a BASIC interpreter, so the speed is low compared to
if you use the same controller as the BASICstamp is built upon,
but program it in Assemlber or a BASIC compiler, you get *100
the speed (or so).

Regards

/Lars

----------------------------------------------------------
LAWICEL / SWEDEN           Phone  : +46 (0)451 - 598 77
Lars Wictorsson            Fax    : +46 (0)451 - 598 78
E-mail: lars@l...   WWW    : http://www.lawicel.com

Embedded hardware/software together with 8051/C16x/AVR and 
smart distributed I/O with CAN  (Controller Area Network).
See CANDIP at http://www.lawicel.com/candip/   AVR+SJA1000
----------------------------------------------------------

In my search for ongoing supplies of 30 pin Simm Sockets, I came across
a connector manufacturer that appears to still have 30 pin sockets being
manufactured.

> Hi Don,
> The parts I quoted you on were 30way dual (2 x 30), and they are in the
> Oupiin 2000 catalog, so we shouldn't have any trouble getting these.
> Regards,
> Kathryn

the part number is 08202-2X30TSMII
This is 30 pin, metal clips, dual row.

http://www.Oupiin.com/
http://www.Oupiin.com/prodindx.html#Sockets
http://www.Oupiin.com/pdf/8202-B46.pdf

As it is a US Company, and I am in Australia, I thought one of the
locals may wish to have a look at them.

Don McKenzie    mailto:don@d...      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

----- Original Message -----
 From: "Guy North" <aufempen@d...>
 To: <simmstick@egroups.com>
 Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 7:14 AM
 Subject: [simmstick] newbies:differences between simmstick and AVR?


 > I just want to check if I got my big picture right.
> The Simmstick is a printed circuit board which has a PIC
> microprocessor on it and can be pushed in (like clipped) onto
> other boards made by DONtronics only.

 Not quite, basically the Simmstick is just a ready-etched PCB.

 Simmstick is a standard way of making PCBs so that they can be plugged
together on a bus made of standard 30pin SIMM sockets, the Simmstick itself
can contain almost anything you want.
Some carry microcontrollers (PIC or AVR), others just peripherals, e.g.
Don's relay card.
There are also ones consisting entirely of holes to prototype your own
circuitry on. There are many kinds of Simmstick from several makers, though
I believe Dontronics has the widest range.

You can make your own motherboards or fit a Simm socket to anything else
you want to use Simmsticks with. You can also design your own Simmsticks and
there is a prize competition to encourage people to do exactly this.


> The AVR is from AMTEL and is a microcontroller which just push
> in a 20 or 40 pins sockets.

Hmmm, I think you might be getting a little confused here, the 16F877 is
also a microcontroller, one of a large range made by a company called
Microchip, it isn't anything to do with Simmsticks in the way you suggest,
it's just that it can be mounted on one type of Simmstick PCB.

The AVR is ditto but made by Atmel. Either can be mounted on suitable
Simmsticks. Both are available in standard IC type pinouts (DIP is the
official name - Dual Inline Package). They are also available in various
minature "surface mount" packages which are not really relevant to the
beginning hobbyist. Most Simmsticks use the DIP type micros.


> The simmstick PIC xx877 can run at 20Mhz but the AVR will only run
> at 4 Mhz? is that correct?

In terms of speed, the Atmel AVR works differently to a PIC internally so
for most commands a 4MHz AVR is roughly equivalent to a PIC running at 16MHz
(this is an oversimplification but the principle holds good).


> The simmstick can be programmed in C, QBASIC and TASM
> The AVR can be programmed - I don't know...

There are a huge range of languages available for both PIC and AVR,
including C, BASIC, Pascal, assembler and several that people have invented
for the purpose e.g. JAL.

I'd *very strongly* recommend you start out by learning assembly language.
Assembly language is simply instructions that work directly on the memory or
pins of the chip and there are loads of good tutorials online.

Even if you plan to program in C, BASIC or whatever, you'll find that
understanding assembler code makes programming in other languages a snap.
Also there are some applications, e.g. when speed, timing or code size are
critical, where assembler is your only option.


> What is the main use of the simmstick and the AVR?

I use Simmsticks for prototyping products, making custom one-off products
and testing code. I make data collection, telemetry and remote control
equipment. All my stuff is done with PICs but all of it could equally be
done with AVRs.


> Can a simmstick programmer board be used to program also an AVR?

Yes, have a look at the Dontronics site for the AVR Simmsticks. The site is
a bit confusing at first but all the info is there somewhere.


> The memory of a simmstick is a sort of EEPROM? is this correct?

A Simmstick is just a PCB, you can fit anything you like onto it, including
micros with built in EEPROM and also standalone EEPROM chips. The serial
type is normally used.


> Is the memory of the AVR also an EEPROM?

Both PIC and AVR have several different kinds of memory. Older ones have
EPROM, which may be eraseable or One Time Programmable (OTP) which is used
to hold the program you have written, they may also have smaller amounts of
EEPROM and/or RAM to hold data. Both PIC and AVR have separate program and
data memory, called Harvard architecture, unlike many earlier designs where
data and program share the same memory areas.

PICs have different types of memory according to the model, all the ones
with a C in the type number e.g. 12C671, 16C84, 17Cxxx, 18Cxxx have EPROM
memory and are usually available in an expensive eraseable version for
development and a cheaper OTP version for production.

More recently they have introduced Flash EEPROM for the program memory on
some models and these have an F in the type number, e.g. 16F84, 16F877, they
have pre-announced lots of future Flash versions of their chips but not many
are available yet. These models can be reprogrammed very simply and are
certainly the best bet for a beginner.

I don't know enough about the AVR range to answer for them, but I'm sure
Atmel's site has all the info.


> In both cases is it possible to add extra EEPROM to a simmstick or an
> AVR?

 Yes.


> The PIC 16F877 is the latest in the line of PIC

That's not quite true, the 17C series and 18C series of PICs have newer
members and
there are new products arriving almost monthly.  In this context however,
new doesn't automatically mean better, sometimes the newer model just adds
(or removes) some of the on-chip peripherals. If you go to the microchip
website and look at the Line Card you will get a good overview of all of the
permutations available.
For your first projects the 16F84 and 16F87x series are probably the best
bet.


> Most probably I am going to ask a question totally out of context and
>  be booted out by the moderator of this group. In all the electronics
> magazine I see the word BASIC STAMP. I can see roughly the difference
> between BASIC STAMP and PIC. BASIC STAMP is NOT as fast as PIC, but
> what are the other differences.

The BASIC Stamp is a small PCB designed to plug into an IC socket which
contains a surface-mount package PIC, an oscillator, power regulator and a
few other components plus a built-in BASIC language interpreter. This last
item is what makes it run so slowly.

It's also a very expensive way to buy a $5 PIC in my opinion. For very
little more you can buy a PIC and a copy of the PICBASIC compiler which you
can then use to program any number of PICs in exactly the same BASIC
language, and it will run 20 times faster at least.

If you're tryng to decide whether to go for PIC or AVR I'd suggest to start
with PICs if only because there is so much support for them available
online. It's easy to convert over to AVR if they have some feature not
available on a PIC.

The main advantage of AVRs is that they have larger memory, though I've not
yet run out of space on the PICs that I use here. I don't know enough about
AVR to give a full comparison here but I'm sure someone else will be able to
help.

You can download the MPLAB development tools for the PIC, it's free from
microchip.com or
even better, contact your local Microchip dealer and get the current CD
which contains the tools and all the datasheet and application notes you
could want.


> Moderator of this group, please remember I am NOT trying to be
> offensive to the group but trying to get a big picture in the scene
> of
> microcontrollers where I am going to spend a few of dollars inthe
> months to come.
> A very curious newbies.


Don't worry about asking questions Guy, we all had to start learning
somewhere.

Remember, the only stupid question is the one you _don't_ ask.


 Spend some time browsing the DOntronics site www.dontronics.com, and
 www.simmstick.com as well as www.microchip.com and www.atmel.com (note that
 Atmel sell two incompatible ranges of microcontroller, the AVR which we are
 discussing here and which is broadly similar to the PIC range, and 8051
 types). That should give you some background on all of this.

 There are also webrings of sites that deal with PICs and AVRs, you can
 probably find them via www.webring.com. There is a huge amount of really
 good info about these devices out there on the web.


 But really I've saved the best bit until last.

 Before you do any of the above go to www.piclist.com/begin.htm and read
that
 and follow all the links, you'll not find a better learning resource
 anywhere. It's a beginners guide compiled by one of the moderators of the
 PICList mailing list.

 The PICList is a quite high volume mailing list dealing with anything to do
 with the PIC processor. It's well worth subscribing to if you can handle
the
 volume of messages. As a complete beginner you may find some of it quite
 technical, but it is also a wealth of useful information and advice for
 newbies too. I'd suggest you sign up (full details at www.piclist.com) and
 read the list for a couple of weeks to get the flavour of it before
 attempting to post any questions. There is a very detailed FAQ about using
 the list, also at piclist.com, which you should print out and keep.


 I hope this has made things a bit clearer for you. Do feel free to ask for
 anything above to be clarified if you're not sure. And keep on asking
 questions!

 Cheers

 Andy.



 .

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don McKenzie" <don@d...>
To: "SimmStick Group" <simmstick@egroups.com>; <dtdealer@l...>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 12:23 PM
Subject: [simmstick] Simm Sockets.



> In my search for ongoing supplies of 30 pin Simm Sockets, I came across
> a connector manufacturer that appears to still have 30 pin sockets being
> manufactured.
>
> > Hi Don,
> > The parts I quoted you on were 30way dual (2 x 30), and they are in the
> > Oupiin 2000 catalog, so we shouldn't have any trouble getting these.
> > Regards,
> > Kathryn
>
> the part number is 08202-2X30TSMII
> This is 30 pin, metal clips, dual row.
>
> http://www.Oupiin.com/
> http://www.Oupiin.com/prodindx.html#Sockets
> http://www.Oupiin.com/pdf/8202-B46.pdf
>
> As it is a US Company, and I am in Australia, I thought one of the
> locals may wish to have a look at them.


Just FYI. RS Components are still selling 30-way SIMM sockets which the
catalogue says are made by AMP GB.

http://rswww.com/itc/scripts/Module.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1864744921.09680663
11@@@@&BV_EngineID=ialikccjfgjbemfcfkmcggcg.0&usertype=guest&productID=21764
74



P.S.  It's slightly worrying that Durability is listed as "25 cycles
minimum"...


Cheers

Andy.


















.