Hi Guys, thanks for the support openly and in private email regarding my
commercial post on this list.

To give you an idea of what is said in private email, I'll take another
liberty and quote from the last email I got just a few minutes ago.

========================================================
One would think you have done more than enough over the years serving
thousands of experimenters and hobbyists so that you, of all people,
would be allowed great liberties on your own list.
========================================================

I did it because I thought a few friends could tell me if I was heading
in the right direction with this project, as we haven't officially
announced the site yet, so I was going, slowly...... slowly......
looking for ideas, or feedback. It slowly evolved in my mind over the
last 2 years, and has been the best kept secret on the web. 

I only released details when the the site was basically finished and
ready to launch. That's when you heard about it.

It came about because of the people that have stolen from me.
You as valued customers, are the ones that put your hand in your pocket
and support me.
You must be aware that you are supporting these thieves as well.

Yes it Spam, and again, I'm sorry if I upset anyone.

Don...

Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

Add USB to your favorite Micro.      http://www.dontronics.com/dlp.html
The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR & PICmicro Hardware and Software

  Please place (or leave -->) "dt2002" in the subject or body of your
  message to guarantee your message getting through our spam filters.

Internet Merchants:  Reduce Credit Card Fraud:  http://www.e-dotcom.com

--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, "Hank" <n1ltv@y...> wrote:
> I'm thinking of getting a tray of those SIMM
> connectors Don mentioned and offering at least
> 30 of them for sale to folks in the US.
> 
> The pricing would be something like $1 per 
> connector with very low first class mail
> added on and fast delivery.
> 
> Are there enough of you that would buy these
> connectors on this basis?  Please email me
> and let me know if so and about how many you'd
> be getting just to give a rough idea.
> 
> Hank

Hank,

I'll be interested in buying 10-20 of them.

Thanks.

Frank
(Valencia, California)

Hi,

I am new here and hello to everybody! It's amazing that Don has done 
so much for SimmStick.

I feel strongly that SimmStick has great opportunity in both hobbyist 
and commercial market. Can't wait to place my first order of kits and 
parts through Dontronics.

One quick question: Is there loyalty or licensing fee involved when 
design my own circuit over the SimmStick? Is there a general 
guideline to follow?

Thanks.

Frank

"flexibix " wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am new here and hello to everybody! It's amazing that Don has done
> so much for SimmStick.
> 
> I feel strongly that SimmStick has great opportunity in both hobbyist
> and commercial market. Can't wait to place my first order of kits and
> parts through Dontronics.
> 
> One quick question: Is there loyalty or licensing fee involved when
> design my own circuit over the SimmStick? Is there a general
> guideline to follow?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Frank

No Frank, it is open and royalty free.

there is more info on the bus at:
http://www.dontronics.com/ssinfo.html
Don...

Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

Add USB to your favorite Micro.      http://www.dontronics.com/dlp.html
The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR & PICmicro Hardware and Software

  Please place (or leave -->) "dt2002" in the subject or body of your
  message to guarantee your message getting through our spam filters.

Internet Merchants:  Reduce Credit Card Fraud:  http://www.e-dotcom.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don McKenzie" <support2003@d...>
To: <simmstick@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [simmstick] Hi


> "flexibix " wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am new here and hello to everybody! It's amazing that Don has done
> > so much for SimmStick.
> >
> > I feel strongly that SimmStick has great opportunity in both hobbyist
> > and commercial market. Can't wait to place my first order of kits and
> > parts through Dontronics.
> >
> > One quick question: Is there loyalty or licensing fee involved when
> > design my own circuit over the SimmStick? Is there a general
> > guideline to follow?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Frank
>
> No Frank, it is open and royalty free.
>
> there is more info on the bus at:
> http://www.dontronics.com/ssinfo.html
> Don...
>

Hows the larger or simmstick2 coming along ?
(64 lines) (are any messages from this group archived
as I can't find where I saved the conversation on 64 line simmstick).

Has any one done a simmstick for ATmega128 yet?
or for any cpld's (xilinx or other) ?

Also I'm still looking around for ideas on robotics
i.e. board mountings ?

For one simmstick is fine as it is rather slow moving.
Small 6 legged bot.

For the other couple (tracked vehicles) I don't think simmstick
is vibration resistant enough.
Tried a trial just bolting a dt003 on top of a small remote control car.
Smaller simmsticks are fine, a few of the larger ones popped out a number of
times.
(DT203, DT205 and DT106 popped out).
Is there any alternate simmstick mounting, so can bolt them down ?

All suggestions appreciated.

Thanks
Alex

--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Shepherd" <ashepherd@w...> 
wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Many years ago I remember seeing an I2C evaluation bopard from 
Philips that
> had one big PCB that could be cut up into smaller, single I2C 
function
> units. Each unit was linked via a I2C cable with power and maybe a 
hardware
> interrupt line.
> 
> However I cannot find any details on it or the cable pinout that is 
used.
> 
> Do any of you I2C guys know of any common I2C cable pinout specs or 
have any
> comments about I2C cable lengths etc.
> 
> Cheers

Hi Alex,

Sorry about the late reply. I am new here and just strated to back 
trace the mesages.

The evaluation board does exist. It might be available from the local 
Philips brach.(usually on-loan basis) However, it is very old so the 
supply might be limited. Let me know if you have specific questions. 
(group post or private e-mail are both O.K.)

Philips once promoted a bus called "access bus", inteded for things 
like modem or keyboard. I believe it's a 4-pin bus (5V, Gnd, SDA and 
SCL)


Sincerely,

Frank
> 
> Alex Shepherd

--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, Carl Dietz <dietzer@a...> wrote:
> Alxx wrote:
> 
> > Spent 10 years fixing aircraft (Avionics modifications and 
maintenance)
> > currently at uni (struggling with Applied Physics and Electrical
> > Engineering).
> > (once I've finished writing this, back to the maths study) :-(
> 
> Good for you!  We need more EE's in the world.  :-)
> 
> > > >
> > > I toyed with adding extra power/gnd to the pin-out when I put 
together
> > > the proposal. I chose instead to add the separate SI2 and SO2 
pins so
> > > as to map as many of the ATmega128's 64pins as possible. But 
these
> > > really don't have to be seperate pins. We could simply make the
> > > proposed B0 and B1 pins become B0/SI2 and B1/SO2 pins instead 
and use
> > > the proposed SI2 and SO2 pins for an added GND and VDD.
> >
> > I'd argue for keeping the DMTB-2 as generic as possible
> > so can be used with as many micros as possible.
> 
> It is generic.  I simply meant that I tried to map as many of the 
64 
> pins of a 64-pin CPU as possible.  Since most large pin count CPUs 
have 
> at least two vdd pins and two ground pins, plus the two crystal 
pins, 
> you end up with around 60 signal pins (the Atmel ATmega has three 
gnd 
> pins, so this drops to 59.  If you add the 32khz xtal for an RTC 
> function, you drop it down to 57).  The 60-pin DTMB-2 proposal 
currently 
> maps 56 signals.
> 
> >
> > But the option to have connector compatibility
> > (size and number of pins not actual bus) with
> > a standard like pc104 plus (not straight pc104)
> > would give a few advantages.
> >
> > <older stuff snipped>
> >
> > One other thing is there another or different 30 (or 60) pin 
connectors
> > around that would allow double or triple stacking of connectors
> > to give the expansion required and maintain existing bus.
> >
> > I would like to see the existing 30 pin to be maintained for as 
long as
> > possible.
> > But could use now both the 60 and larger(92, 120 or 128) pin 
versions.
> > And a stackable option would be very handy.
> >
> > But we don't want too many variants.
> > and with the existing boards it is easy enough to
> > make either edge or stackable versions by just changing the 
connectors.
> >
> > Need the same for whatever format connector is chosen.
> >
> I spent time yesterday researching the 4 row connectors used in 
PC/104 
> plus.  I don't think they are a good match for the DTMB-2 bus for 
the 
> following reasons:
> 
> 1) They are 2mm pitch, so the multi-row connector is very dense.  
Unless 
> half the pins are power/gnd you won't be able to route all the 
signals 
> on a double-sided PC board.  The PC/104, PC/104 plus and CompactPCI 
> specs were all made with 4-8 layer boards in mind, not 2-layer 
boards. 
>  And DTMB-2 should support 2-layer boards.
> 
> 2) After much looking I found a company called Comm Con Connectors 
that 
> sells the PC/104 plus connectors.  The 64-pin PC/104 dual-row 
stackable 
> header is US$4.48, while the 120-pin PC/104 plus 4x30 connector is 
> $11.64.  If I could only route around 60 pins on a 2-layer board, 
I'd 
> rather use the cheaper connector.
> 
> 3) With the 4x30 stackable connector it will be difficult to hand 
solder 
> the middle two rows because the pins stick out so far from the 
bottom of 
> the board (in order to be stackable), and they're all on a 2mm 
grid. 
>  It's not impossible to do, but not as easy as soldering dual-row 
> headers/connectors.
> 
> The PC/104 dual row stackable headers are a great option for the 
DTMB-2, 
> though.  For stackable solutions, you would only need one per board 
for 
> a 60-pin DTMB-2 bus, and at $US4.48 and they have the same 
footprint as 
> standard 0.100" dual-row headers.  A 92-pin version of the DTMB-2 
could 
> use simply use 2 stackable connectors.
> 
> > Another thing is parallel connections the way to go?
> > Things to consider:
> >
> > pcb costs due to added complexity
> > connector costs
> > grounding of boards and ground planes / interference
> > pwr and gnds over thinner traces - enough current ?
> 
> I do think parallel is the way to go.  Parallel is simple, cheap, 
and 
> easy for the home experimenter to use.
> 
> Connector costs is a good point, and that's why I stayed away from 
the 
> SCSI connectors and CompactPCI connectors.  The 68 and 80 pin SCSI 
>  connectors are in the US$6 - US$10 range, as are the CompactPCI 
> connectors, and you need a male and a female per module (one on the 
> module and one on the motherboard) to connect them up.  This adds 
up 
> pretty quickly.  It's hard to justify a motherboard with US$30 of 
> connectors for US$10-$15 of components...
> 
> The advantage of the standard PCI connectors is that they are cheap 
> (US$2.34 for the 60-pin and US$2.89 for the 92-pin from Digi-Key) 
and 
> you only need one per module (on the motherboard) because the 
module 
> connection is edge-card.  A 4 slot 60-pin motherboard would have 
less 
> than US$9.50 of connectors, and the 92-pin motherboard less than 
US$12. 
> That's about as cheap a solution as one can get for more than 40 
pins.
> 
> I have a question:  should the DTMB-2 definition allow for both 60-
pin 
> and 92-pin versions, or should we save the 92-pin version for a 
future 
> date and only define the 60-pin version now ?
> 
> Carl

Hi Guys,

I have just e-mailed Don (McKenzie) my comment on the new SimmStick 
design. It is highly serial based so the 30-pin connecor will stay. I 
believe the parallel bus should be kept on the local level (another 
comment I made was to have the core micro made into a small SIP 
board!) My comment was in Microsoft Word format so I am not sure if I 
am able to post it here.

In a nutshell, my view of the next generation SimmStick system should 
allow sticks with various processing power to co-exist smoothly.

I am hoping that Don can figure a way to bring my comment under 
SimmStick group discussion.

Sincerely,

Frank

Hi,

Jameco has it on sale (0.25 to 0.09) item#72531
http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?
prmenbr=91&prrfnbr=263201&cgrfnbr=501&ctgys=

Does any one have experience with this part? Like to hear your 
comment before I buy!

From the spec sheet, it was made in China.

I have asked them if they are still carrying it for some time.


Frank

al wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Don McKenzie" <support2003@d...>
>To: <simmstick@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 9:32 AM
>Subject: Re: [simmstick] Hi
>
>Hows the larger or simmstick2 coming along ?
>(64 lines) (are any messages from this group archived
>as I can't find where I saved the conversation on 64 line simmstick).
>
>Has any one done a simmstick for ATmega128 yet?
>or for any cpld's (xilinx or other) ?
>
>Also I'm still looking around for ideas on robotics
>i.e. board mountings ?
>
>For one simmstick is fine as it is rather slow moving.
>Small 6 legged bot.
>
>For the other couple (tracked vehicles) I don't think simmstick
>is vibration resistant enough.
>Tried a trial just bolting a dt003 on top of a small remote control car.
>Smaller simmsticks are fine, a few of the larger ones popped out a number of
>times.
>(DT203, DT205 and DT106 popped out).
>Is there any alternate simmstick mounting, so can bolt them down ?
>
>All suggestions appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>Alex
>
>  
>

I made a proposal for the 60-pin DTMB-2 (DonTronics MicroBus 2) based on 
the common PCI bus connector.  So far the comments received have all 
been positive.

I'm included an updated version of the proposal in html format so its 
easier for everyone to read.  I did add the extra VDD/GND as suggested, 
by combining  SI2 and SO2 with B0 and B1, respectively.

Is anyone interested in adding more modern features to this bus, like a 
unique interrupt pin and slot ID per slot ?

Carl

----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Carl Dietz
>To: simmstick@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 3:05 AM
>Subject: Re: [simmstick] Re: [dtdealer] A Proposal for a New DTMB-2Bus
(DonTronics MicroBus)
>
>Frank,
>
>The whole point of the new DTMB bus is to be backwards compatible yet
provide a better solution than the current 30-pin
>SimmStick.
>
>One of the major problems with the 30-pin SimmStick (as you can see in my
proposal for the DTMB-2 which I'm attaching) is one >Don brought up long
ago: the 30-pin SIMM connectors requires the thinner 0.05" PCB width which
is hard for hobbyists like us to >find PCB shops that make it at all, let
alone make it cheap.  The second major issue is the eventual demise of the
30-pin SIMM >connector itself, since manufacturers have stopped making them.
>
>The other problem with keeping the bus 30-pin is lack of parallel I/Os.  It
seems that doesn't matter to you, but to those of us using >40-pin and
64-pin CPUs  it matters a lot.  But to keep it simple, my proposal for the
60-pin PCI connector-based DTMB-2 bus >allows full compatibility with the
30-pin SimmStick, and you can mix both 30-pin and 60-pin modules on the same
motherboard.
>
>If you have a word document you want to post, go ahead.  If you think
people have trouble reading word documents (I run linux so I >sometimes have
trouble with word documents, depends on the version of word used to write
it), I think Word supports printing to a >text file.  Try that, then you can
post it as text, which everyone can read.
>
>By the way, since the current bus definition for the 30-pin SimmStick is so
loose, you can probably just post a way to use the current >30-pin SimmStick
bus with your serial proposal without proposing a change to the existing
30-pin bus.
>
>Carl

Another way is in word save as html .
or convert to pdf.

<OT>
Or even better download a copy of open office www.openoffice.com.
replacement for ms office and is free available windows, mac and linux.
then save all docs as html and you get pure html not ms html.
</OT>

What about suggested pins / pinout for DTMB-2 90 pin ?

I'm looking at making boards for cplds as well as ATmegas.
44 pin plcc, 44 pin(leg) vqfp , 64 vqfp , 100 vqfp , 100 tqfp and 144 tqfp
Even with the 44pin you have up to 36io's,64pin 36 or 52 io's
100 pin 64 to 84 io's, 144 pin  100 to 120 io's.

The first board I'm looking at doing is for a TQ144 pin cpld.
Just looking at options at the moment.

Okay a lot of these Io's may be local(clock etc) and mean , can use
DTMB-2-60
but for the larger ones (up to 324 pin) ?
see http://www.xilinx.com/publications/matrix/
http://www.xilinx.com/publications/matrix/cpld_bw.pdf

100 pin+ its probably not going to be worth using simmstick
anyway and make a standalone board.Mostly due to frequency than number of
IOs.

Even most of the small cplds can run at up to 200MHz
but I can't see myself needing to use more than 40MHz at the most.
For over that you would probably want 2 or 4 layer boards with
a ground layer/s anyway and would design them for each application
separately.

Might take me a while but will get them done.
Will be using eagle from cadsoft.de.

Additionally with a 90 pin version we can look at some of the larger 16 and
32 bit
micros (arm 7 on a simmstick, or web server on a simstick(its do able)
more likely with plcc or vqfp packaging)

Most say I quite impressed with some of the xilinx
reference designs and app notes
http://www.xilinx.com/products/cpldsolutions/ref_designs.htm
http://www.xilinx.com/apps/epld.htm

Alex

Proposal for DonTronics Micro Bus 2 (DTMB-2)
al wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Don McKenzie" <support2003@d...>
>To: <simmstick@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 9:32 AM
>Subject: Re: [simmstick] Hi
>
>Hows the larger or simmstick2 coming along ?
>(64 lines) (are any messages from this group archived
>as I can't find where I saved the conversation on 64 line simmstick).
>
>Has any one done a simmstick for ATmega128 yet?
>or for any cpld's (xilinx or other) ?
>

I've designed a Simmstick for a Xilinx XC9536 CPLD. No-one was interested so
I never put it into production. I produced a variant that could be attached
to a DT208 Bus Adaptor, but there wasn't any interest in this, either.

Leon

Leon Heller, G1HSM
leon_heller@h...
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller

Carl,

Points well taken.

1. 30-pin socket and board problem:
Agree. The socket was heavily used in early generation PC (486 and 
low end Pentium) so supply will dry out or lessen. PCI connector does 
have longer life. However, what if the next generation of processing 
& memory bus come along and PCI is being phased out... A potential 
alternative is IDC connectors which seems to have much longer life. 
Another advantage is the board thickness can be flexible so cards 
with heavy power demand (power supply and relay for example) can be 
taken care of.

2. As for the parallel bus, I understand the necessity of expansion. 
PC bus and memory bus are both good examples. I favor the serial bus 
approach because I am interested in building a network in which:
** cards with wide range of horse power should be allow to co-exist. 
If you go for something like PCI, now each card might require a PCI 
interface chip, regardless its complexity.
** with parallel bus, you have multiple high speed lines going across 
the bus. This is not a good thing for analog and/or wireless circuit. 
If parallel bus is localized, then local shielding would be much 
economical to accomplish.
** with serial bus, system with networked SimmSticks can be done 
without going through DMA, interrupt and etc... (the serial DMA is a 
good example)

3. I am not against parallel bus expansion at all. It's just it might 
not work well with my conception of networked SimmSticks.

4. Thanks for the suggestion on MS Word. I'll try to convert it into 
HTML. (might it a challenge since it has several drawings) If all 
fail, I might go for the Acrobat PDF or the openoffice.

5. I am drawing up a proposal for networked SimmStick with current 30-
pin form factor. (with the added suggestion of adding 30-pin IDE 
connecor hole footprint by the SIMM connectors to protect against the 
SIMM socket issue)

6. My goal is to thow my ideas around the SimmStick group to catch 
some comments to help strengthen my plan. And if my plan looks 
feasible to some developers, I definitely like to get help to speed 
up the project.


Sincerely,

Frank

 
--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, Carl Dietz <dietzer@a...> wrote:
> formosan14  wrote:
> 
> >
> >Hi Guys,
> >
> >I have just e-mailed Don (McKenzie) my comment on the new 
SimmStick 
> >design. It is highly serial based so the 30-pin connecor will 
stay. I 
> >believe the parallel bus should be kept on the local level 
(another 
> >comment I made was to have the core micro made into a small SIP 
> >board!) My comment was in Microsoft Word format so I am not sure 
if I 
> >am able to post it here.
> >
> >In a nutshell, my view of the next generation SimmStick system 
should 
> >allow sticks with various processing power to co-exist smoothly.
> >
> >I am hoping that Don can figure a way to bring my comment under 
> >SimmStick group discussion.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Frank
> >
> >  
> >
> Frank,
> 
> The whole point of the new DTMB bus is to be backwards compatible 
yet 
> provide a better solution than the current 30-pin SimmStick.
> 
> One of the major problems with the 30-pin SimmStick (as you can see 
in 
> my proposal for the DTMB-2 which I'm attaching) is one Don brought 
up 
> long ago: the 30-pin SIMM connectors requires the thinner 0.05" PCB 
> width which is hard for hobbyists like us to find PCB shops that 
make it 
> at all, let alone make it cheap.  The second major issue is the 
eventual 
> demise of the 30-pin SIMM connector itself, since manufacturers 
have 
> stopped making them.
> 
> The other problem with keeping the bus 30-pin is lack of parallel 
I/Os. 
>  It seems that doesn't matter to you, but to those of us using 40-
pin 
> and 64-pin CPUs  it matters a lot.  But to keep it simple, my 
proposal 
> for the 60-pin PCI connector-based DTMB-2 bus allows full 
compatibility 
> with the 30-pin SimmStick, and you can mix both 30-pin and 60-pin 
> modules on the same motherboard.
> 
> If you have a word document you want to post, go ahead.  If you 
think 
> people have trouble reading word documents (I run linux so I 
sometimes 
> have trouble with word documents, depends on the version of word 
used to 
> write it), I think Word supports printing to a text file.  Try 
that, 
> then you can post it as text, which everyone can read.
> 
> By the way, since the current bus definition for the 30-pin 
SimmStick is 
> so loose, you can probably just post a way to use the current 30-
pin 
> SimmStick bus with your serial proposal without proposing a change 
to 
> the existing 30-pin bus.
> 
> Carl
> 
> P.S. I know I attached this updated proposal in reponse to Al's 
mail, 
> but since not everyone follows every thread I'm attaching it to 
this 
> reply, too.

> The evaluation board does exist. It might be available from the local
> Philips brach.(usually on-loan basis) However, it is very old so the
> supply might be limited. Let me know if you have specific questions.
> (group post or private e-mail are both O.K.)

Actually they have a new dev board available... very recently released...
the PC connection is 3rd Party however.

- Brill Pappin
  Rogue Robotics
  www.roguerobotics.com

al wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don McKenzie" <support2003@d...>
> To: <simmstick@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 9:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [simmstick] Hi

> Hows the larger or simmstick2 coming along ?
> (64 lines) (are any messages from this group archived
> as I can't find where I saved the conversation on 64 line simmstick).

http://www.dontronics.com/dtmb.html
has info.

> (DT203, DT205 and DT106 popped out).
> Is there any alternate simmstick mounting, so can bolt them down ?
> 
> All suggestions appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> Alex

would the m/f header pins instead of simm sockets work?
you can possibly cable tie them down through the holes.


Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

Add USB to your favorite Micro.      http://www.dontronics.com/dlp.html
The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR & PICmicro Hardware and Software

  Please place (or leave -->) "dt2002" in the subject or body of your
  message to guarantee your message getting through our spam filters.

Internet Merchants:  Reduce Credit Card Fraud:  http://www.e-dotcom.com

> > The evaluation board does exist. It might be available from the local
> > Philips brach.(usually on-loan basis) However, it is very old so the
> > supply might be limited. Let me know if you have specific questions.
> > (group post or private e-mail are both O.K.)
>
> Actually they have a new dev board available... very recently released...
> the PC connection is 3rd Party however.

Do you mean this board: http://www.demoboard.com/I2C_2002-1kit.htm ?
We will likely use it between PCBs for interfacing to non-trivial I/O
modules like Barcode readers LCD/Keypad terminal and other model rail
detection devices etc to a main PCB and I just wanted to know what people
were doing now as there may be some overlap with devices used for robots
etc.

I now have a choice for the connector and signal usage so I may as well use
a pinout that is in common usage if such a thing exists.

So far the only other common usage I have seen is with the OO-Pic units
which has a pinout at the bottom of this link: http://www.oopic.com/con5.htm

End of the day its not that big a deal, but if there was already a bright
light to follow then I may as well use that. : )

Alex


>
> - Brill Pappin
>   Rogue Robotics
>   www.roguerobotics.com
>
>
>
>
>
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>

> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have just e-mailed Don (McKenzie) my comment on the new SimmStick
> design. It is highly serial based so the 30-pin connecor will stay. I
> believe the parallel bus should be kept on the local level (another
> comment I made was to have the core micro made into a small SIP
> board!) My comment was in Microsoft Word format so I am not sure if I
> am able to post it here.
> 
> In a nutshell, my view of the next generation SimmStick system should
> allow sticks with various processing power to co-exist smoothly.
> 
> I am hoping that Don can figure a way to bring my comment under
> SimmStick group discussion.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Frank

thanks Frank, have posted the info to:
http://www.dontronics.com/zif/Comments on new SimmStick board.doc

Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

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Alex,

The following site(http://www.mcc-us.com/techsrc.htm)has quite a few 
link to I2C info, including the Access.bus connecotr spec. (+5V is 
optional) This is the company that makes I2C bus monitor. However, 
for internal use, you probably can care less about the exact pinout.

In addition, when you want to use I2C to do some I/O or else, you 
might want to consider few things:
1. The frequency of access (for 8574 running under 100 Khz, you are 
looking at max comm bandwidth to less than 10 KB/s)
2. Devices like 8574 provides an interrupt line which becomes active 
when the level changes on the inputs. It might be used to save some 
uC procesing time.
3. If you prefer to add more intelligence to it, then a Philips uC 
might be worth looking into.

Frank 

--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Shepherd" <ashepherd@w...> 
wrote:
> > > The evaluation board does exist. It might be available from the 
local
> > > Philips brach.(usually on-loan basis) However, it is very old 
so the
> > > supply might be limited. Let me know if you have specific 
questions.
> > > (group post or private e-mail are both O.K.)
> >
> > Actually they have a new dev board available... very recently 
released...
> > the PC connection is 3rd Party however.
> 
> Do you mean this board: http://www.demoboard.com/I2C_2002-1kit.htm ?
> We will likely use it between PCBs for interfacing to non-trivial 
I/O
> modules like Barcode readers LCD/Keypad terminal and other model 
rail
> detection devices etc to a main PCB and I just wanted to know what 
people
> were doing now as there may be some overlap with devices used for 
robots
> etc.
> 
> I now have a choice for the connector and signal usage so I may as 
well use
> a pinout that is in common usage if such a thing exists.
> 
> So far the only other common usage I have seen is with the OO-Pic 
units
> which has a pinout at the bottom of this link: 
http://www.oopic.com/con5.htm
> 
> End of the day its not that big a deal, but if there was already a 
bright
> light to follow then I may as well use that. : )
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> >
> > - Brill Pappin
> >   Rogue Robotics
> >   www.roguerobotics.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message, send it to:   simmstick@e...
> >
> > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: simmstick-
unsubscribe@e...
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

> thanks Frank, have posted the info to:
> http://www.dontronics.com/zip/Comments on new SimmStick board.doc

Sorry, I knew I shouldn't have posted a URL like that, after I posted
it. as well as putting zif instead of zip and the space problem :-)

try:
http://www.dontronics.com/zip/Comments_on_new_SimmStick_board.doc


Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

Add USB to your favorite Micro.      http://www.dontronics.com/dlp.html
The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR & PICmicro Hardware and Software

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Alex,

Thanks for the suggestion on openoffice. I downloaded the Windows 
verion from openoffice.org successfully. (50M bytes)

Does anyone have experience or comment about the openoffice for 
Windows?

In addition, is there a common depository for DTMB-2 proposals (like 
the excellent one provided by Carl)


Frank

--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, "al" <alxx@i...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: Carl Dietz
> >To: simmstick@yahoogroups.com
> >Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 3:05 AM
> >Subject: Re: [simmstick] Re: [dtdealer] A Proposal for a New DTMB-
2Bus
> (DonTronics MicroBus)
> >
> >Frank,
> >
> >The whole point of the new DTMB bus is to be backwards compatible 
yet
> provide a better solution than the current 30-pin
> >SimmStick.
> >
> >One of the major problems with the 30-pin SimmStick (as you can 
see in my
> proposal for the DTMB-2 which I'm attaching) is one >Don brought up 
long
> ago: the 30-pin SIMM connectors requires the thinner 0.05" PCB 
width which
> is hard for hobbyists like us to >find PCB shops that make it at 
all, let
> alone make it cheap.  The second major issue is the eventual demise 
of the
> 30-pin SIMM >connector itself, since manufacturers have stopped 
making them.
> >
> >The other problem with keeping the bus 30-pin is lack of parallel 
I/Os.  It
> seems that doesn't matter to you, but to those of us using >40-pin 
and
> 64-pin CPUs  it matters a lot.  But to keep it simple, my proposal 
for the
> 60-pin PCI connector-based DTMB-2 bus >allows full compatibility 
with the
> 30-pin SimmStick, and you can mix both 30-pin and 60-pin modules on 
the same
> motherboard.
> >
> >If you have a word document you want to post, go ahead.  If you 
think
> people have trouble reading word documents (I run linux so I 
>sometimes have
> trouble with word documents, depends on the version of word used to 
write
> it), I think Word supports printing to a >text file.  Try that, 
then you can
> post it as text, which everyone can read.
> >
> >By the way, since the current bus definition for the 30-pin 
SimmStick is so
> loose, you can probably just post a way to use the current >30-pin 
SimmStick
> bus with your serial proposal without proposing a change to the 
existing
> 30-pin bus.
> >
> >Carl
> 
> Another way is in word save as html .
> or convert to pdf.
> 
> <OT>
> Or even better download a copy of open office www.openoffice.com.
> replacement for ms office and is free available windows, mac and 
linux.
> then save all docs as html and you get pure html not ms html.
> </OT>
> 
> What about suggested pins / pinout for DTMB-2 90 pin ?
> 
> I'm looking at making boards for cplds as well as ATmegas.
> 44 pin plcc, 44 pin(leg) vqfp , 64 vqfp , 100 vqfp , 100 tqfp and 
144 tqfp
> Even with the 44pin you have up to 36io's,64pin 36 or 52 io's
> 100 pin 64 to 84 io's, 144 pin  100 to 120 io's.
> 
> The first board I'm looking at doing is for a TQ144 pin cpld.
> Just looking at options at the moment.
> 
> Okay a lot of these Io's may be local(clock etc) and mean , can use
> DTMB-2-60
> but for the larger ones (up to 324 pin) ?
> see http://www.xilinx.com/publications/matrix/
> http://www.xilinx.com/publications/matrix/cpld_bw.pdf
> 
> 100 pin+ its probably not going to be worth using simmstick
> anyway and make a standalone board.Mostly due to frequency than 
number of
> IOs.
> 
> Even most of the small cplds can run at up to 200MHz
> but I can't see myself needing to use more than 40MHz at the most.
> For over that you would probably want 2 or 4 layer boards with
> a ground layer/s anyway and would design them for each application
> separately.
> 
> Might take me a while but will get them done.
> Will be using eagle from cadsoft.de.
> 
> Additionally with a 90 pin version we can look at some of the 
larger 16 and
> 32 bit
> micros (arm 7 on a simmstick, or web server on a simstick(its do 
able)
> more likely with plcc or vqfp packaging)
> 
> Most say I quite impressed with some of the xilinx
> reference designs and app notes
> http://www.xilinx.com/products/cpldsolutions/ref_designs.htm
> http://www.xilinx.com/apps/epld.htm
> 
> Alex

> In addition, is there a common depository for DTMB-2 proposals (like
> the excellent one provided by Carl)

to date:
http://www.dontronics.com/dtmb.html

Don...

Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

Add USB to your favorite Micro.      http://www.dontronics.com/dlp.html
The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR & PICmicro Hardware and Software

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--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, "formosan14 <formosan14@y...>" 
<formosan14@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Jameco has it on sale (0.25 to 0.09) item#72531
> http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?
> prmenbr=91&prrfnbr=263201&cgrfnbr=501&ctgys=
> 
> Does any one have experience with this part? Like to hear your 
> comment before I buy!
> 
> From the spec sheet, it was made in China.
> 
> I have asked them if they are still carrying it for some time.
> 
> 
> Frank

Got a reply from Jameco today:

"The item is discontinued and we have 13,400 in stock. The price for 
500 pieces is .09 ea"

I have decided to go with Hank and Len for the HK supply.

Frank

Don,

Is/has there been any intereaction with your SIMMStick BUS and what the
Dallas guys have been doing with their TINY Java stick as seen here:
http://www.ibutton.com/TINI/hardware/index.html ?

They have a 72 pin SIMM connector and so I wondered if there was any
technical merit in something that incorporates that.

There is also a sthing called a JStik http://jstik.systronix.com which looks
to be a 30 way SIMM connector. Does this interoperate with your PCBs?

Alex

Alex Shepherd wrote:
> 
> Don,
> 
> Is/has there been any intereaction with your SIMMStick BUS and what
> the
> Dallas guys have been doing with their TINY Java stick as seen here:
> http://www.ibutton.com/TINI/hardware/index.html ?
> 
> They have a 72 pin SIMM connector and so I wondered if there was any
> technical merit in something that incorporates that.
> 
> There is also a sthing called a JStik http://jstik.systronix.com which
> looks
> to be a 30 way SIMM connector. Does this interoperate with your PCBs?
> 
> Alex

The jstik does, as given on their page:
The SimmStick® compatible JSimm bus provides access to many I/O pins
such as serial I/O, timers, counters, etc. The pinout is identical to
that on the JStamp development station and the JCX backplane.

They spoke to me when it was designed, and may even be on this list.
Sotryy, I can't remeber names. :-(

The dallas gear has been pointed out to me in the past, but it is still
the old 72 pin problem.

The 60 pin PCI type bus, seems a much better long term alternative.

Don...

Don McKenzie  E-mail:    http://www.dontronics.com/e-mail.html
              Home Page: http://www.dontronics.com

Add USB to your favorite Micro.      http://www.dontronics.com/dlp.html
The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR & PICmicro Hardware and Software

  Please place (or leave -->) "dt2002" in the subject or body of your
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: <formosan14@y...>
To: <simmstick@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 4:52 AM
Subject: [simmstick] Re: [dtdealer] A Proposal for a New DTMB-2Bus
(DonTronics MicroBus)


> Alex,
>
> Thanks for the suggestion on openoffice. I downloaded the Windows
> verion from openoffice.org successfully. (50M bytes)
>
> Does anyone have experience or comment about the openoffice for
> Windows?
>
> In addition, is there a common depository for DTMB-2 proposals (like
> the excellent one provided by Carl)
>
>
> Frank

Openoffice if you save in microsoft office formats will
keep giving warnings about loosing information.
Thats just to encourage you to use the native formats
which are xml and have builtin compression.
Only time I have lost formating was saving a word doc with an embedded
spreadsheet.

It will not allow visual basic to be embedded inside a document.

If you are a heavy ms office user and use lots of macros and
custom spreadsheets stick with ms office.

The main reason I use it is I can have the same office software on all the
operating
systems I have to use -> windows, mac, linux, solaris.
Makes it a lot lot easier and nice to have the same program and
user interface on all systems.

Alex,

Thanks for the tips. Fortunately (or unfortunately) I spent most of 
my time under Win 98. (just started Linux the third time :)

My applications are mostly around MS Word with tables and Drawings. 
It's the drawings(mostly text block and lines) that I am concerned 
the most. Are you able to do drawing in OPenOffice? 


Sincerely,

Frank

--- In simmstick@yahoogroups.com, "al" <alxx@i...> wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <formosan14@y...>
>