From support2004 at dontronics.com Mon May 10 03:12:14 2004 From: support2004 at dontronics.com (Don McKenzie) Date: Mon May 10 03:13:09 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] Microbric Message-ID: <409F2B4E.CF646003@dontronics.com> Members may recall I recently put some details about Microbric on my web site. (see below) And for Australian Members: Brenton O'Brien the designer, just rang me to let me know that there is a small report in tomorrow's IT pages of the Australian newspaper, and Wednesday night, there will be 6 or 7 minutes on Australia's ABC channel 2 "The New Inventors" at 8:00pm. Don... http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/microbric_information.doc http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/battle_robot.jpg http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/brics_x_2.jpg http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/demo.jpg http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/dtmf_radio_controller.jpg http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/robot.jpg http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/robot_close_up.jpg http://www.dontronics.com/microbric/robot_standing.jpg -- Don McKenzie E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php From support2004 at dontronics.com Tue May 11 18:14:43 2004 From: support2004 at dontronics.com (Don McKenzie) Date: Tue May 11 18:14:46 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] TinyARM Philips LPC2106 and LPC2129 controllers Message-ID: <40A15053.23766996@dontronics.com> 12-May-2004 TinyARM Philips LPC2106 and LPC2129 controllers on 40 pin and 50 pin DIP format modules. http://www.dontronics.com/pasat.html BCC also to our newsletter as a test. -- Don McKenzie E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php From subscriptions at aeolusdevelopment.com Tue May 11 19:45:17 2004 From: subscriptions at aeolusdevelopment.com (Robert Adsett) Date: Tue May 11 19:45:20 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] TinyARM Philips LPC2106 and LPC2129 controllers In-Reply-To: <40A15053.23766996@dontronics.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040511194344.01e80d10@aeolusdevelopment.com> At 08:14 AM 5/12/04 +1000, you wrote: >12-May-2004 >TinyARM Philips LPC2106 and LPC2129 controllers on 40 pin and 50 pin DIP >format modules. >http://www.dontronics.com/pasat.html > >BCC also to our newsletter as a test. To which I might add ther is a LPC2106 available on a SIMMStick. :) http://www.aeolusdevelopment.com/Articles/ARMStick102.html Robert " 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions, be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to chew a radio signal. " Kelvin Throop, III From rodsil at austarnet.com.au Thu May 13 00:39:06 2004 From: rodsil at austarnet.com.au (Rod) Date: Thu May 13 00:39:02 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radio control for model aeroplanes_ boats? Message-ID: <001601c438a4$3add7340$dc2ffea9@rodsil> Hi SimmStick Group Don suggested I post my query to your group. I'm looking for an 'off the shelf' or nearly so system that could replace traditional proportional radio transceivers which are currently used to control model aeroplanes and boats. I live in one of Australia's smaller towns where there is basically only one small model hobby shop, one significant toy shop, and one significant electronic component retailer (DSmith). The advice I've received seems to indicate that quality proportional radio transceivers, used to control hobby models, are limited to use in aeroplanes and boats. I could risk using these radios for ground running devices but would possibly face official sanctions or friendly chats from fliers/boaters affected by any stray signals. Again, iseems anyone wanting to run something other than a model boat or an aeroplane, such as a model crane, train, bulldozer or a robot is poorly served in terms of off the shelf technology, ie stuck with the 27MHz and 40MHz radios with only back/forward/steer or simple infrared doing the same thing. In addition the 27/40MHz seem to only provide capacity for 4. There would seem to be solutions of sorts on the net but they require significant programming skills and electronics skills to draw it all together, plus the cost of getting it to Australia. Much revolves around autonomous robotics, whereas, I want a system that also allows a lot of real time user input. Does anyone know of a complete and relatively simple package, or something nearly so? I'm thinking of for example: - hand held/desktop computer as mechanism for sending operator instructions wirelessly to models acting as clients or peer to peer - easily loaded and configured program for the hand held/desktop computer and the the model's control board - wireless signal say 100-200 metres (I'm thinking 802.11) - wireless receiver integrated with control card available for mounting on model with multiple input_outputs (say ten, but more the better) for motors/sensors, with video feed even better - no interference with other models using the same system (ie coded data packages) - large number of users (say 30 or more) at once (although advice is that video feed would strangle bandwidth in terms of numbers of operators) - open source software? I saw the 'New Inventors' program covering the Microbric by Brenton O'Brien and the web note that Dontronics might be selling the Microbric as basic and advanced packages by Christmas. Could the bric be configured into a system that would provide multiple simultaneous users with remote control over their respective models? (I wish the tv host would give guests more time to talk about their inventions!) I'm sort of getting desparate for a solution that doesn't take more than a life time to put together or take your sanity in the process. Looking forward to your reply. Rod. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://helene.affordablehost.com/pipermail/simmstick_group_dontronics.com/attachments/20040513/97d27d51/attachment.htm From simmstick_list at whizkidzit.com Thu May 13 10:38:28 2004 From: simmstick_list at whizkidzit.com (Ingmar Meins) Date: Thu May 13 10:36:27 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radio control for model aeroplanes_ boats? In-Reply-To: <001601c438a4$3add7340$dc2ffea9@rodsil> References: <001601c438a4$3add7340$dc2ffea9@rodsil> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040514003508.027fc978@203.23.200.55> Sounds like you live here in Griffith NSW ! I would think that www.silvertone.com.au might be a good starting point for some non-traditional RC ideas. He does military etc stuff. Ingmar At 02:39 PM 13/05/2004, you wrote: >Hi SimmStick Group > >Don suggested I post my query to your group. > >I'm looking for an 'off the shelf' or nearly so system that could replace >traditional proportional radio transceivers which are currently used to >control model aeroplanes and boats. > >I live in one of Australia's smaller towns where there is basically only >one small model hobby shop, one significant toy shop, and one significant >electronic component retailer (DSmith). The advice I've received seems to >indicate that quality proportional radio transceivers, used to control >hobby models, are limited to use in aeroplanes and boats. I could risk >using these radios for ground running devices but would possibly face >official sanctions or friendly chats from fliers/boaters affected by any >stray signals. > >Again, iseems anyone wanting to run something other than a model boat or >an aeroplane, such as a model crane, train, bulldozer or a robot is poorly >served in terms of off the shelf technology, ie stuck with the 27MHz and >40MHz radios with only back/forward/steer or simple infrared doing the >same thing. In addition the 27/40MHz seem to only provide capacity for 4. >There would seem to be solutions of sorts on the net but they require >significant programming skills and electronics skills to draw it all >together, plus the cost of getting it to Australia. Much revolves around >autonomous robotics, whereas, I want a system that also allows a lot of >real time user input. Does anyone know of a complete and relatively simple >package, or something nearly so? >I'm thinking of for example: >- hand held/desktop computer as mechanism for sending operator >instructions wirelessly to models acting as clients or peer to peer >- easily loaded and configured program for the hand held/desktop computer >and the the model's control board >- wireless signal say 100-200 metres (I'm thinking 802.11) >- wireless receiver integrated with control card available for mounting on >model with multiple input_outputs (say ten, but more the better) for >motors/sensors, with video feed even better >- no interference with other models using the same system (ie coded data >packages) >- large number of users (say 30 or more) at once (although advice is that >video feed would strangle bandwidth in terms of numbers of operators) >- open source software? > >I saw the 'New Inventors' program covering the Microbric by Brenton >O'Brien and the web note that Dontronics might be selling the Microbric as >basic and advanced packages by Christmas. Could the bric be configured >into a system that would provide multiple simultaneous users with remote >control over their respective models? (I wish the tv host would give >guests more time to talk about their inventions!) > >I'm sort of getting desparate for a solution that doesn't take more than a >life time to put together or take your sanity in the process. > >Looking forward to your reply. > >Rod. > > >_______________________________________________ >SimmStick_Group mailing list >SimmStick_Group@dontronics.com >http://dontronics.com/mailman/listinfo/simmstick_group_dontronics.com From jay at sprucegrove.com Thu May 13 10:43:44 2004 From: jay at sprucegrove.com (D. Jay Newman) Date: Thu May 13 10:45:09 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radio In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20040514003508.027fc978@203.23.200.55> from "Ingmar Meins" at May 14, 2004 12:38:28 AM Message-ID: <200405131443.i4DEhi618156@sprucegrove.com> > I would think that www.silvertone.com.au might be a good starting point for > some non-traditional RC ideas. He does military etc stuff. I have heard that you can get aircraft transmitters and recievers retuned to the ground frequencies. I'd stay away from 802.11 because it has high power consumption. There are simple radio modules that you can order that will transmit at a speed of around 9600 baud that are inexpensive. On the other hand, if you're operating a robot like mine (based on a 1/5th Stuart tank base with 2 9 amp-hour SLA batteries) and a VIA Epia motherboard then 802.11 is easier than the alternatives. -- D. Jay Newman ! jay@sprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! From support2004 at dontronics.com Thu May 13 18:37:18 2004 From: support2004 at dontronics.com (Don McKenzie) Date: Thu May 13 18:37:27 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] http://www.dontronics.com/microbric.html Message-ID: <40A3F89E.2D053557@dontronics.com> For those who didn't catch it, or were not able to see it, Brenton's Microbric can be seen in action by following the link below. Don... ================================== 14-May-2004 Advance Info Only. Microbric is an electronic construction set based upon the construction style/concept of both Lego? and Meccano?, but it is far from just a toy. Just shown on "The New Invetors" ABC Channel 2 Australia. 12-May-2004 Follow the link for details. http://www.dontronics.com/microbric.html -- Don McKenzie E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php From rodsil at austarnet.com.au Fri May 14 07:43:28 2004 From: rodsil at austarnet.com.au (Rod) Date: Fri May 14 07:44:04 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radio References: <200405131443.i4DEhi618156@sprucegrove.com> Message-ID: <001701c439a8$c4e13900$dc2ffea9@rodsil> Thanks D. Jay. I'll check silvertone tonight. I would be interested in any more information you might be willing to send on how you got your Stuart up and running, as in addition I'm also interested in tank design. I would like to make something that fires ball bearings in the same fashion as battleship group models, with the potential for combined land and sea strategies. I'm not so much interested in historical detailing of the models. I would be going for 'naked' models, a term I saw referred to by a battleship group operative who was lamenting the infiltration of such models. Scale would be roughly 1/20-1/30. When I talk about this staff I like to make the point I don't support real war unless absolutely necessary and I'm not some sort of gun nut. Having said that, strategy and technical issues are very interesting in many ways and being able to 'plink' the competitions models is no doubt as satisfying as scoring a goal or forcing a checkmate. Cheers. Rod. PS your not the oz guy who has a website devoted to tanks as I'm sure he featured a Stuart or something very similar? ----- Original Message ----- From: D. Jay Newman To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:13 AM Subject: Re: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radio > > I would think that www.silvertone.com.au might be a good starting point for > > some non-traditional RC ideas. He does military etc stuff. > > I have heard that you can get aircraft transmitters and recievers retuned > to the ground frequencies. > > I'd stay away from 802.11 because it has high power consumption. There > are simple radio modules that you can order that will transmit at a > speed of around 9600 baud that are inexpensive. > > On the other hand, if you're operating a robot like mine (based on a 1/5th > Stuart tank base with 2 9 amp-hour SLA batteries) and a VIA Epia motherboard > then 802.11 is easier than the alternatives. > -- > D. Jay Newman ! > jay@sprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. > http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! > > _______________________________________________ > SimmStick_Group mailing list > SimmStick_Group@dontronics.com > http://dontronics.com/mailman/listinfo/simmstick_group_dontronics.com From rodsil at austarnet.com.au Fri May 14 07:50:19 2004 From: rodsil at austarnet.com.au (Rod) Date: Fri May 14 07:50:50 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radiocontrol for model aeroplanes_ boats? References: <001601c438a4$3add7340$dc2ffea9@rodsil> <6.0.0.22.2.20040514003508.027fc978@203.23.200.55> Message-ID: <001801c439a9$a2cfcc40$dc2ffea9@rodsil> Hi Ingmar. No, I live in Darwin with a pop of about 100,000. I'll check out silvertone tonight. One other group member has also suggested the same site. Thanks for your help. Cheers. Rod. ----- Original Message ----- From: Ingmar Meins To: SimmStick Group Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radiocontrol for model aeroplanes_ boats? > Sounds like you live here in Griffith NSW ! > > I would think that www.silvertone.com.au might be a good starting point for > some non-traditional RC ideas. He does military etc stuff. > > Ingmar > > At 02:39 PM 13/05/2004, you wrote: > >Hi SimmStick Group > > > >Don suggested I post my query to your group. > > > >I'm looking for an 'off the shelf' or nearly so system that could replace > >traditional proportional radio transceivers which are currently used to > >control model aeroplanes and boats. > > > >I live in one of Australia's smaller towns where there is basically only > >one small model hobby shop, one significant toy shop, and one significant > >electronic component retailer (DSmith). The advice I've received seems to > >indicate that quality proportional radio transceivers, used to control > >hobby models, are limited to use in aeroplanes and boats. I could risk > >using these radios for ground running devices but would possibly face > >official sanctions or friendly chats from fliers/boaters affected by any > >stray signals. > > > >Again, iseems anyone wanting to run something other than a model boat or > >an aeroplane, such as a model crane, train, bulldozer or a robot is poorly > >served in terms of off the shelf technology, ie stuck with the 27MHz and > >40MHz radios with only back/forward/steer or simple infrared doing the > >same thing. In addition the 27/40MHz seem to only provide capacity for 4. > >There would seem to be solutions of sorts on the net but they require > >significant programming skills and electronics skills to draw it all > >together, plus the cost of getting it to Australia. Much revolves around > >autonomous robotics, whereas, I want a system that also allows a lot of > >real time user input. Does anyone know of a complete and relatively simple > >package, or something nearly so? > >I'm thinking of for example: > >- hand held/desktop computer as mechanism for sending operator > >instructions wirelessly to models acting as clients or peer to peer > >- easily loaded and configured program for the hand held/desktop computer > >and the the model's control board > >- wireless signal say 100-200 metres (I'm thinking 802.11) > >- wireless receiver integrated with control card available for mounting on > >model with multiple input_outputs (say ten, but more the better) for > >motors/sensors, with video feed even better > >- no interference with other models using the same system (ie coded data > >packages) > >- large number of users (say 30 or more) at once (although advice is that > >video feed would strangle bandwidth in terms of numbers of operators) > >- open source software? > > > >I saw the 'New Inventors' program covering the Microbric by Brenton > >O'Brien and the web note that Dontronics might be selling the Microbric as > >basic and advanced packages by Christmas. Could the bric be configured > >into a system that would provide multiple simultaneous users with remote > >control over their respective models? (I wish the tv host would give > >guests more time to talk about their inventions!) > > > >I'm sort of getting desparate for a solution that doesn't take more than a > >life time to put together or take your sanity in the process. > > > >Looking forward to your reply. > > > >Rod. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >SimmStick_Group mailing list > >SimmStick_Group@dontronics.com > >http://dontronics.com/mailman/listinfo/simmstick_group_dontronics.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > SimmStick_Group mailing list > SimmStick_Group@dontronics.com > http://dontronics.com/mailman/listinfo/simmstick_group_dontronics.com From jay at sprucegrove.com Fri May 14 10:10:35 2004 From: jay at sprucegrove.com (D. Jay Newman) Date: Fri May 14 10:12:07 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] what can replace conventional radio In-Reply-To: <001701c439a8$c4e13900$dc2ffea9@rodsil> from "Rod" at May 14, 2004 09:13:28 PM Message-ID: <200405141410.i4EEAZP22212@sprucegrove.com> > I would be interested in any more information you might be willing to send > on how you got your Stuart up and running, as in addition I'm also > interested in tank design. I would like to make something that fires ball The tank was an R/C toy from Walmart (a 1/5 scale tank for only $150!!). Well, I cheated. For a while I was thinking about how I could keep the basic design and still fit extra batteries and a Mini-ITX board in there, while still leaving room for sensors. Eventually I just took out Dremel and hollowed out the inside plastic except for the wall between the motor compartment and the rest. I removed all the original electronics and replaced them with my own. The I/O controller is a JStik (which *does* use a SimmStick, so this isn't totally off topic) and an I/O board I designed (this summer in a SERVO magazine, maybe July last I heard) which used the SimmStick bus. The ESCs for the motors are Vantecs from The Robot Marketplace. I installed Gentoo Linux on the Mini-ITX board which has a 1 gig and a 256 meg flash cards as disks. The WiFi link is a Linksys 802.11b ethernet<->WiFi bridge. I have an 802.11g PCI card, but there is little or no Linux support for this card (I should have checked *first*) -- once this is supported I will use that instead of the bridge. The original battery was a single 7 amp-hr SLA: I replaced this with two 9 amp-hour batteries from BatteryMart. One runs the motors and the other runs the electronics. The electronics battery runs about 2 hours. I haven't tried to run the motor battery down yet. Pretty much everything is tied together with 3M Dual Lock, Anderson Powerpoles, and hot-glue. > PS your not the oz guy who has a website devoted to tanks as I'm sure he > featured a Stuart or something very similar? Nope. I like tanks as robot bases. I'd like to eventually put the top back on because it would look better (and the turret has a perfectly good motor/gear system), but I'm not in any rush to do so. I like fairly big robots, but I'm not a scale modeler. I want to find a used (and inexpensive) powered wheelchair base for my next robot. -- D. Jay Newman ! jay@sprucegrove.com ! Xander: Giles, don't make cave-slayer unhappy. http://enerd.ws/robots/ ! From support2004 at dontronics.com Sat May 15 01:33:01 2004 From: support2004 at dontronics.com (Don McKenzie) Date: Sat May 15 01:33:31 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] Re: Don (Technical & Support) - Via Email Contact Page References: Message-ID: <40A5AB8D.E220EBAB@dontronics.com> Levent Sasmazel wrote: > > Message sent via http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics > > Hi, > > I am one of your proud customers. I really like to say your guys doing great job. I bet you are getting a lot of mail with suggestions. I am s telecom researcher working for one of the BellLabs spin-off. I think I do have a great product idea for you guys. There are a lot of cheap ISA cards all around the world. I can but a 10/100Mb Ethernet card for pc around the $10, nearly same price for old sound cards. If I do have a motherboard can host one ISA card and one or more SIMSTICK I can do incredible thinks. Very cheap PIC or Atmel WEB servers etc.. If you like to build one I will be more then happy to buy a few. I hope you can utilize this idea. > > Regards. > --Levent Sasmazel Hi Levent, Thanks for the feedback. Yes I do get plenty of suggestions from time to time, but unfortunately I don't find the time these days to do anything about bringing them to life. I have to agree, ISA cards are dirt cheap, and many have been used in the past for these types of applications. I have taken the liberty of posting your message to my SimmStick Usergroup, however I have hidden your email address. I figure it could give some of them a few ideas, or topics of discussion. Cheers Don... -- Don McKenzie E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php From support2004 at dontronics.com Tue May 25 01:20:18 2004 From: support2004 at dontronics.com (Don McKenzie) Date: Tue May 25 01:20:31 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] Alex Gibson's Electronics Book Recommendations: Message-ID: <40B2D792.B6BF4FAF@dontronics.com> 24-May-2004 Alex Gibson's Electronics Book Recommendations: http://www.dontronics.com/alex.html Alex frequents the Usenet groups, and provides reams of valuable information to readers, and is able to quote some great links and book recommendations. He seems to be a talking encyclopedia when it comes to quoting URL's. This page is a list of his book recommendations. He also frequents this list :-) Don... -- Don McKenzie E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php From support2004 at dontronics.com Tue May 25 01:22:14 2004 From: support2004 at dontronics.com (Don McKenzie) Date: Tue May 25 01:22:31 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] Book Recomendations. Message-ID: <40B2D806.7A283072@dontronics.com> > What about posting the list to the simmstick group > and asking them for feedback as well > and getting them to add any books they like as well. > > Alex I hardly hit send when I got this from Alex :-) Comments welcome. Don... -- Don McKenzie E-Mail Contact Page: http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics USB to RS232 Converter that works http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html Don's Free Guide To Spam Reduction http://www.e-dotcom.com/spam_exp.php From alxx at alxx.net Wed May 26 02:08:38 2004 From: alxx at alxx.net (Alex Gibson) Date: Wed May 26 02:08:09 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] new atmel arm7 chips Message-ID: <40B43466.9050708@alxx.net> For anyone who doesn't read comp.arch.embedded Looks like atmel is getting in to the small arm7 chip game as well to compete with philips , analog devices and others http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/product_card.asp?part_id=3397 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc6054.pdf look at at91sam7 chips available 4th quarter 2004 8 - 32KB ram 32 - 256KB flash 1- 3 usarts some with usb 1 with ethernet some with lcd controllers 8 or 16 10bit adcs vcc 3 - 3.6 volt Analog devices arm microconverters available 4th quarter 2004 http://www.analog.com/IST/SelectionTable/?selection_table_id=212 1Msps 12bit adcs 5 - 16 adcs vcc 2.7 - 3.5v with 5v compatable io philips http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/catalog/219/282/45988/45993/index.html#45993 vcc core 1.8 io 3.3 5v tolerant 2100 no external bus http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/catalog/219/282/45988/45993/45994/index.html#45994 2200 external bus http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/catalog/219/282/45988/45993/47439/index.html#47439 Alex From subscriptions at aeolusdevelopment.com Wed May 26 08:30:52 2004 From: subscriptions at aeolusdevelopment.com (Robert Adsett) Date: Wed May 26 08:31:01 2004 Subject: [SimmStick_Group] new atmel arm7 chips In-Reply-To: <40B43466.9050708@alxx.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20040526082901.0383b8f0@aeolusdevelopment.com> You left out ST :) Robert " 'Freedom' has no meaning of itself. There are always restrictions, be they legal, genetic, or physical. If you don't believe me, try to chew a radio signal. " Kelvin Throop, III